Players are already lowering their bar for Downtrail

[Jojoya]

All I can say is if Dawntrail repeats the same kind of pattern like previous expansions.

Then we got a problem.

Why do you consider it a problem when it's really not that different from what MMORPGs in general have been doing for a couple of decades? Release an expansion filled with leveling content and the initial endgame then dribble out more content over the next 2 years until the next expansion is ready to release.

[Turtledeluxe]

Oh, I can definitely agree they're behind the times with the way they do things. The contortions people have to go through to buy the game if not using PSN or Steam, the look of the Lodestone and the forums, the look of the launcher (which is at least an improvement over the old launcher but still). FFXIV has been my only experience with a JP gaming company but other players have told me it's not that unusual for JP to be behind what NA/EU companies are doing.

If marketing is what gaming is about these days, it goes far in showing why we've been getting a flood of bad games. Companies are paying more attention to how they sell a game than how they make it. Time for gamers to start putting more stock into the games they play and enjoy instead of falling for marketing hype and spending money on games that just aren't satisfying to them in the end.

I misspoke. It's not that gaming is about marketing. It's that gaming today is competitive. It is no coincidence that the year XVI, BG3, Armored Core etc dropped that XIV is seeing a decline in subs. Who knows what will be capturing attention by next summer? The question is whether this drip feed style of reveals (which BTW is basically just extorting players money in exchange for a concert or whatever) will maintain hype given that lowering of expectations is an ongoing topic regarding DawnTrail.

Moreover, no other publisher really does this. Trailers can be teases but to modify the same trailer 3 times just seems exploitatively tedious. Yoshi P is modernizing the game in the aforementioned ways, talks about attracting the Fornite gamer, but is using the same dull marketing structure from 10 years ago. That's my point. The Fortnite gamer is used to just seeing the best of whatever the next update is and that's it. It's not some year long drawn out thing.

To expound say the Fornite gamer is told by a friend to check out XiV-- is someone on the forum seriously and honestly going to tell me this teaser is going to appeal to a diverse crowd and not just the hardcore base of XIV???? How is that serving the game or the agenda of growing it..? The friend has to explain "oh but it will seem good in six months just watch this and that on these dates". I feel like the community doesn't get it and finds that appealing.

I also disagree it is JP thing. RE and Persona are cutting edge in comparison. And there was never a time I'm aware of when a US mmo did this kind of thing.

[Turtledeluxe]

Why do you consider it a problem when it's really not that different from what MMORPGs in general have been doing for a couple of decades? Release an expansion filled with leveling content and the initial endgame then dribble out more content over the next 2 years until the next expansion is ready to release.

I know it isn't addressed to me but it is because MMOs are on the way out and live service/ free to play are in. People are waiting for an MMO comeback that, imo, is likely never coming back. People say new players will replace players like me and everyone I know who are losing interest in XIV. But that pool of players is limited both literally and due to the fact XIV is simply outdated, as a game, regardless of genre. People keep claiming 7.0 will be big but I highly doubt it will outpace Endwalker, which was riding a multi factor high (timing, no other good mmos, big streamers playing it, end of the ascian plot). Players are already unsubbing at fairly alarming rates and the assumption is that they will all return. That's a dangerous assumption imo but the devs and the fans of this game are so accustomed to record breaking that they won't see possible downturns coming until it is at their doorstep.

Even right now people are saying the game is dead ish because that is what always happens etc. And that is true. The servers will still be overloaded for 7.0 don't get me wrong...but it's a question of how long it sticks given post Endwalker has seen huge drop offs hard and fast.

[Noumenon]

I know it isn't addressed to me but it is because MMOs are on the way out and live service/ free to play are in. People are waiting for an MMO comeback that, imo, is likely never coming back. People say new players will replace players like me and everyone I know who are losing interest in XIV. But that pool of players is limited both literally and due to the fact XIV is simply outdated, as a game, regardless of genre. People keep claiming 7.0 will be big but I highly doubt it will outpace Endwalker, which was riding a multi factor high (timing, no other good mmos, big streamers playing it, end of the ascian plot). Players are already unsubbing at fairly alarming rates and the assumption is that they will all return. That's a dangerous assumption imo but the devs and the fans of this game are so accustomed to record breaking that they won't see possible downturns coming until it is at their doorstep.

Even right now people are saying the game is dead ish because that is what always happens etc. And that is true. The servers will still be overloaded for 7.0 don't get me wrong...but it's a question of how long it sticks given post Endwalker has seen huge drop offs hard and fast.

Ashes of Creation is looking a bit dated at this point and who knows what will happen to the Riot MMO. You're right. The genre is probably going to die in the next decade or so.

[Deceptus]

All I can say is if Dawntrail repeats the same kind of pattern like previous expansions.

Then we got a problem.

They've had the same schedule for 3 expansions now, what makes you think they're going to change?

Definition of insanity and all that.

[Striker44]

Players are already unsubbing at fairly alarming rates and the assumption is that they will all return. That's a dangerous assumption imo but the devs and the fans of this game are so accustomed to record breaking that they won't see possible downturns coming until it is at their doorstep.

Even right now people are saying the game is dead ish because that is what always happens etc. And that is true. The servers will still be overloaded for 7.0 don't get me wrong...but it's a question of how long it sticks given post Endwalker has seen huge drop offs hard and fast.

The issue with comments like this is that they're Chicken Little "the sky is falling" that clashes with reality. There was an anomalous spike in subs at the end of ShB/beginning of EW because of the infamous "WoW exodus", but given how different the two games are, reasonable people never expected that spike to last, nor have I heard anyone legitimately claim they're assuming anywhere near "everyone" from that spike will return with the start of DT. Remove the spike from consideration and what you see in EW is a continuation of the same trend that has existed for every single expansion starting from ARR, which is a slow but steady growth in subs and active players. To make a valid comparison, look at the data from similar points in an xpac (for example, compare the month 6.4 released to 5.4, 4.4, 3.4, etc.). Hilariously, even the "Steam data" claiming the game is bleeding subs (while ignoring both the unique spike and natural cyclical nature of subs in every MMO that ever existed) actually shows EW consistently features the highest playerbase to date at each equivalent point along the way.

The part is who are the people saying the game is dead'ish? Oh, right, the negative echo chamber that is living in the past, can't accept that things change with time, MMO's are no longer designed (or meant) to be your entire life, and trash or doomsay the game every chance they get. Meanwhile, actually go log into the game and play, and you see it thriving, people having a blast, and just a ton of good vibes in general.

[Turtledeluxe]

The issue with comments like this is that they're Chicken Little "the sky is falling" that clashes with reality. There was an anomalous spike in subs at the end of ShB/beginning of EW because of the infamous "WoW exodus", but given how different the two games are, reasonable people never expected that spike to last, nor have I heard anyone legitimately claim they're assuming anywhere near "everyone" from that spike will return with the start of DT. Remove the spike from consideration and what you see in EW is a continuation of the same trend that has existed for every single expansion starting from ARR, which is a slow but steady growth in subs and active players. To make a valid comparison, look at the data from similar points in an xpac (for example, compare the month 6.4 released to 5.4, 4.4, 3.4, etc.). Hilariously, even the "Steam data" claiming the game is bleeding subs (while ignoring both the unique spike and natural cyclical nature of subs in every MMO that ever existed) actually shows EW consistently features the highest playerbase to date at each equivalent point along the way.

The part is who are the people saying the game is dead'ish? Oh, right, the negative echo chamber that is living in the past, can't accept that things change with time, MMO's are no longer designed (or meant) to be your entire life, and trash or doomsay the game every chance they get. Meanwhile, actually go log into the game and play, and you see it thriving, people having a blast, and just a ton of good vibes in general.

Yes, as I mentioned, EW was riding a lot of highs including having no competition due to WoW being in a particularly bad space. DawnTrail has an opposing version of EW's benefits -- pandemic over, inflation high, tons of competition, brand new story.

As far as "tons of good vibes" I don't agree. Towns have people but there's way less banter, bards, groups doing things. There's even less bots. I'm also not just one person I have a friends list and linkshells-- I can see fcs and networks of people who just stopped playing. And lots if them are people who used to play more than me. While it's anecdotal I'm not the only one saying that, and queues aren't exactly off the wall even on Aether.

There's exceptions of course because you have your second lifers, sprouts, and raiders. But they're literally always going to be there doing their thing since they're the base.

You can plug your ears and act like everyone wants to play the game all day every day but that it wasn't being asked. The new patch content just didn't really land, some people aren't feeling the story, and there's other stuff to play. But when enough players leave, their friends do too because MMOs are social games.

[Hyperia]

All I can say is if Dawntrail repeats the same kind of pattern like previous expansions.

Then we got a problem.

It would not surprise me if it’s more of the same. Things are not all that spiffy in SE financially right now so they may not want to rock the boat much in any way. Yes, the boat is leaking, but they probably think that it’s not bad enough to change course. Their stockholders are still there saying “where’s my dividend”.

[Atelier-Bagur]

It would not surprise me if it’s more of the same. Things are not all that spiffy in SE financially right now so they may not want to rock the boat much in any way. Yes, the boat is leaking, but they probably think that it’s not bad enough to change course. Their stockholders are still there saying “where’s my dividend”.

Marking the beginning of the inevitable END of Square Enix and FFXIV.


Im sure some of us here are just getting tingles and goosepimples of joy seeing such words like that thrown

[SquishyPlushie]

I'm hoping Dawntrail uses itself as a soft-reset without needing another Bahamut incident to do so.