What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

I think it just comes down to a lack of consistency. We always knew that Hydaelyn was responsible for the Sundering, which in itself was always an act of genocide. It was just a matter of whether it was an intentional act or an accident - and quite a few of us were more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt prior to Endwalker. As it happened, not only were her motives exceptionally dubious none of them hold up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny or would be accepted if they were instead aimed at the protagonists of the story. So I never got the impression that the story was ever going to be black or white even when we only knew some vague details.

I know a lot of people who only really started paying attention to the story during Heavensward and again in Shadowbringers due to the nuance that was present. Stories involving straight up 'good guys vs bad guys' only really work if the 'bad guys' are allowed to earn a victory from time to time. Sephiroth and Kefka are so memorable precisely because they 'won' to an extent. Yet the game's increasing aversion to anything resembling meaningful consequences for the main cast ensures that it's often difficult to care about anything that the Scions do. The game likes to not only clad them in ridiculous levels of plot armour but pretend as if their specific point of view is almost always correct.

Many other RPG's have more varied characters with different opinions, personalities, belief systems and goals. They may align with certain interests from time to time but it doesn't stop them from clashing every now and then. FFXIV is in dire need of more than that and although Dawntrail promises to go down that route, I'd be surprised if it didn't result in the Scions all coming to agree by the end of the base MSQ's.

A lot of people were also hoping for a more interesting cause behind the Final Days. Some sort of alien entity along the lines of Lavos, Jenova or Ultima would have been perfect - and arguably a lot more engaging than Meteion. Dynamis was also a rather grotesque element to add into the equation and one I suspect was only conjured up out of nowhere to try and justify Venat's actions as a 'necessity'. It's just a shame that the game spent a decade being exceptionally preachy and screechy only to fail to commit when it mattered most. It basically just revealed that the Scions have no real issue with the things they claim to fiercely oppose so long as the 'correct' targets are being wiped out.

[BRVV]

FFXIV is in dire need of more than that and although Dawntrail promises to go down that route, I'd be surprised if it didn't result in the Scions all coming to agree by the end of the base MSQ's.

It's gonna be a nothingburger just like that one

I hate how they "simplified" everything in trying to make us the "good guys" and now we are genocide excusers that protect the sacred timeline where Garlean falls. We are actually so evil we don't see our enemies as people anymore and pad ourselves on the back and smile like a five year old.

[ReynTime]

I think it just comes down to a lack of consistency. We always knew that Hydaelyn was responsible for the Sundering, which in itself was always an act of genocide. It was just a matter of whether it was an intentional act or an accident - and quite a few of us were more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt prior to Endwalker. As it happened, not only were her motives exceptionally dubious none of them hold up under even the slightest bit of scrutiny or would be accepted if they were instead aimed at the protagonists of the story. So I never got the impression that the story was ever going to be black or white even when we only knew some vague details.

I know a lot of people who only really started paying attention to the story during Heavensward and again in Shadowbringers due to the nuance that was present. Stories involving straight up 'good guys vs bad guys' only really work if the 'bad guys' are allowed to earn a victory from time to time. Sephiroth and Kefka are so memorable precisely because they 'won' to an extent. Yet the game's increasing aversion to anything resembling meaningful consequences for the main cast ensures that it's often difficult to care about anything that the Scions do. The game likes to not only clad them in ridiculous levels of plot armour but pretend as if their specific point of view is almost always correct.

Many other RPG's have more varied characters with different opinions, personalities, belief systems and goals. They may align with certain interests from time to time but it doesn't stop them from clashing every now and then. FFXIV is in dire need of more than that and although Dawntrail promises to go down that route, I'd be surprised if it didn't result in the Scions all coming to agree by the end of the base MSQ's.

A lot of people were also hoping for a more interesting cause behind the Final Days. Some sort of alien entity along the lines of Lavos, Jenova or Ultima would have been perfect - and arguably a lot more engaging than Meteion. Dynamis was also a rather grotesque element to add into the equation and one I suspect was only conjured up out of nowhere to try and justify Venat's actions as a 'necessity'. It's just a shame that the game spent a decade being exceptionally preachy and screechy only to fail to commit when it mattered most. It basically just revealed that the Scions have no real issue with the things they claim to fiercely oppose so long as the 'correct' targets are being wiped out.

Agree with everything except Ultima.
He really shouldn't be compared to Lavos or Jenova. Those two are more akin forces of nature that barely look like something you can communicate at all with, which is part of the reason why they are scary. Ultima "looks" scary but is a monotome blabbermouth.
His motives are more stupid than Meteion's, and he literally comes out of nowhere even after the tedious exposition dump he gives.

[Theodric]

Agree with everything except Ultima.
He really shouldn't be compared to Lavos or Jenova. Those two are more akin forces of nature that barely look like something you can communicate at all with, which is part of the reason why they are scary. Ultima "looks" scary but is a monotome blabbermouth.
His motives are more stupid than Meteion's, and he literally comes out of nowhere even after the tedious exposition dump he gives.

I agree, though I was referring to the Ultima of Ivalice rather than the Ultima of FFXVI.

I wasn't a fan of how the antagonists were handled in FFXVI but it does match up with how unceremoniously some of FFXIV's antagonists are cast aside.

[ReynTime]

I agree, though I was referring to the Ultima of Ivalice rather than the Ultima of FFXVI.

I wasn't a fan of how the antagonists were handled in FFXVI but it does match up with how unceremoniously some of FFXIV's antagonists are cast aside.

Completely forgot that was a thing.
My only experiences with Ivalice are Vagrant Story and FFXII.