If you've 'run out of stuff to do' in a game as big as 14, the answer isn't 'more 14'

[Atelier-Bagur]

On the flip side what is bringing in new players going to do when you still have the mammoth wall of the MSQ to get through and a cratering endgame playerbase so you don’t even know what’s going to be able to be done when you reach endgame

Having new players is good, having a constant flow of new players that cycle out as soon as they reach endgame is not

See, the thing that people like yourself are missing the point is that the MSQ is that "draw" for players. People keep hyping up this game's story because its what attracts and sells. The rest is just fluff. Do I agree that this game's story is that good? No..not really, its about above average than most jrpgs even with its highest highs. But a lot of people play rpgs for the story so the fact that we have an MMO that is build around everything having a well written story compared to most other MMOs is what supposed to attract people.

Nobody ever comes to FFXIV for the dungeons or the raids or the pvp or even its endgame, because it's all dog doo. FFXIV is just that super casual of an MMO and this is what ultimately has slowly attracted numerous players into the game is because we have a lot more casuals in the industry than the hardcore.

So basically the mammoth wall of the msq is content for them. I'm not saying this in the belief that this is good. Hell no, Im a firm believer than an MMO should have a good balance of most of its core elements and this game leans waay to heavily on the other uncommon extreme in the genre, but this is how this game has thrived for years. Because everything about it is very easy and casual to get into compared to its contemporaries.

[Noumenon]

Its about above average than most jrpgs even with its highest highs

It's truly amazing how many FF14 players unironically say that this game has the best story among all games.

I really wonder if they played any RPG other than FF14. Even non-story-focused games like God of War have stories that knock FF14 out of the water.

[Musashidon]

Even non-story-focused games like God of War have stories that knock FF14 out of the water.

people really like to try to over hype god of war and it's bad story.

[Noumenon]

people really like to try to over hype god of war and it's bad story.

And FF14's is somehow even worse.

[Musashidon]

And FF14's is somehow even worse.

that's a good joke, made me laugh 10/10

[Turtledeluxe]

See, the thing that people like yourself are missing the point is that the MSQ is that "draw" for players.

This is just more dev excuse making. The devs don't set up fan fest and only show story. They don't do Live Letters and only talk about story. The devs don't exclusively work on story content.

Regardless of players praising MSQ, it's the devs pushing out average content and leaving outdated systems in place. If FFXIV's foundation is too restrictive then they should have called it quits after 6.0 and had FFXVII in production.

SE wants to have their cake and eat it too. That's what is really happening.

[Ivtrix]

that's a good joke, made me laugh 10/10

Never played god of war but the xiv story is pretty average I don’t think it’s groundbreaking but it does well enough

[TarynH]

I've been playing this game since ARR launched on PS4. The ironic part is seeing that the majority of people haven't realized the fundamental problem this game has until deep into Endwalker. It's been the same for every expansion. The problem isn't lack of content. The problem is the patch cycle itself. It's too routine and predictable. So predictable now that we can easily determine what's worth doing.

We know what's coming next at all times. It's not a mystery. Eventually you get used to it and realize you can skip phases of it and save yourself some time and trouble. So it's not lack of content. It's the feeling of "I've done this before." It's the lack of curveballs in a long game of nice fastballs right over the plate. Other than stories, and a spattering of lore, the content itself is not meaningful in any way. The majority of it is a continuous ilevel grind that can mostly be bypassed.

Let's assume you're like me; the typical mid-core "casual" player that enjoys most of the content, and has tried most of it. You're not afraid of a challenge, but you're not looking for the ultimate challenge. You have a few close friends you enjoy playing the game with, but you got tired of all that "savage" nonsense with the last MMO you played. The following is how the patch cycles would look after you're all caught up before the new expansion.

You have the basic core patch system:

x.0 Big MSQ patch to kick things off, 1 raid, 10 levels to grind on all of your jobs, dungeons and trials galore! Once this initial "burst" of content is caught up on, there is not much else initially.

x.1 24man raid hits the next patch cycle. An hour or two of MSQ with a dungeon and a trial. Then nothing until x.15. If you only gear up one job with raid gear, this lasts 5 weeks.

x.2 8man raid hits the next patch cycle. An hour or two of MSQ with a dungeon and a trial. Then nothing until x.25. If you only gear up one job with raid gear, this lasts 5 weeks.

x.3 24man raid hits the next patch cycle. An hour or two of MSQ with a dungeon and a trial. Then nothing until x.35. If you only gear up one job with raid gear, this lasts 5 weeks.

x.4 8man raid hits the next patch cycle. An hour or two of MSQ with a dungeon and a trial. Then nothing until x.45. If you only gear up one job with raid gear, this lasts 5 weeks.

x.5 24man raid hits the next patch cycle. An hour or two of MSQ with a dungeon and a trial. Then nothing until x.55. If you only gear up one job with raid gear, this lasts 5 weeks. This is the only patch cycle that matters at all if you want to gear up other jobs. However, you can wait even longer for when the weekly lot is dropped.

x.6 Possible MSQ. Fluff and wait.

(You can actually skip some of the raids above and buy/craft gear if you don't care about Savage content.)

Where the variation comes is in the x.x5 content. Much of this content is highly uncertain in terms of participation. I personally don't enjoy Ultimate or Savage content, but Savage trials are part of the same tired patch cycle. I personally didn't enjoy Deep Dungeons after PotD, but it's something they can recycle and act like it's new. I liked Eureka, but didn't like Bozja. They didn't even try it this cycle. Instead we got criterion dungeons that could've been used for relics, but were kind of one and done content.

I can't stand PvP. Imo, PvP is wasted development time. Island Sanctuary was almost good. Until you realized it became a weekly thing you could set and log off. Beast tribes. I actually like these, although they seem to be added far after they'd be useful to leveling jobs. Side quests and crafting. Fine with this. More solo content to grind.

So for me personally, I get most of my enjoyment out of that initial burst of content that comes out at the start of an expansion. I take my time leveling my jobs up and getting new gear. Then I pick a main and second job for the expansion, and enjoy the continued MSQ and normal raids when they come out. So when I say "there's nothing to do" it refers to there is no more content to do that is enjoyable to me after I've caught up.

That's what people don't understand about the "there's nothing to do" comment.

You can keep telling me that Savage/Ultimate raids, roulettes, and running old dungeons ad nauseum is "content." You'd be right. It is "content." But is it enjoyable lasting content? Or is it just something to repeat because you have nothing else to do? Tome grinding is not meaningful or fun. Kinda threw a wrench in the relics this cycle. I'm sure nobody complained about that. Grind things that .01% of players would even attempt to grind? Sure... right behind you. You can say I haven't exhausted all of the content, so how could I possibly not have content to do? To which I ask, why haven't you played every single game that's ever been made? Don't you like games?

The worst part of all of it, is Dawntrail looks like it's going to have the same patch cycle. The one point in the game's history where they could change things up; bring in a relief pitcher. Instead, it looks like the same core patch system.

tldr; I personally want the devs to break out of this monotonous patch cycle that nobody has seemed to notice until Endwalker stretched it all out to 4 months. They are giving us the same miniscule amount of content, with ever-expanding wait times. That's why it seems like very little is coming out now. I'm not burned out. I've just seen the pattern. I'm set in what I see as significant content. I see so much content that can be skipped, or done later when I'm higher level.

Constructive feedback section to the devs (if they're reading): Add some more content for 1-2 people, like criterion dungeons, where we can explore the hidden lore of the world. Add some more gathering/crafting zones like Diadem/Ishgard, with a story. Let us help rebuild the realm that was destroyed before ARR, with some story. Add some interesting content like Besieged from FFXI, where we stop beast tribe raids. Add a Campaign system like FFXI has, where we take the fight to them. Add supply runs, assault missions, exploration missions. Add some expedition content we can do with our squadrons, where we go out treasure hunting, or play some kind of campaign with them. Make the next "Island Sanctuary" be about actually running an industry, with supply lines, and the ability to jump in and build stuff ourselves, or at least help out. Let it be ours so we can take some pride in building it up. Give us a reason to return to the island we have, other than setting up the weekly routine. Maybe having to repair buildings, or find an animal that got out of the pasture. (Although you'd have to fix the horrible animal catching system you have now.) Give us a farmer/rancher job to level while we're on the island, for no other reason than to have another thing to grind for fun. Make farming and animal raising like actual farming games (Stardew Valley). Just some ideas of things I'd enjoy personally.

[aveyond-dreams]

It's truly amazing how many FF14 players unironically say that this game has the best story among all games.

I really wonder if they played any RPG other than FF14. Even non-story-focused games like God of War have stories that knock FF14 out of the water.

They sometimes do. Usually they seem to only play the intro segment or manage to get through the game with only a superficial understanding of events like the people who unironically try to argue against adding more stakes to 14's story via character deaths or other consequences by misrepresenting what happened in games like FF12 and FF10.

[ForteNightshade]

Do we have to engage with something to benefit from it?

For the most part, yes.

Duty Support is almost entirely future-proofing for years down the road when the game is nearing its conclusion. Queues for leveling dungeons were never an issue except for very odd hours of the day, and even then, they'd very often pop with relative frequency. Ironically, it's the dungeons they're not implementing Duty Support for that can take longer due to the lackluster incentives of running them. Furthermore, most dungeons are incredibly easy nowadays, especially older ones which have been power crept into oblivion if not outright nerfed entirely. On the whole Duty Support is a good addition, just not one that has much impact. Especially for long term players who will scarcely even interact with the few new players who even utilize it. After all, it will take them quite some time getting through all the MSQ and we're all playing the endgame.

Even putting all that aside, it's still a superficial update if actual content was sacrificed to accomplish it. That goes for the graphical overall too. If we're losing gameplay and seeing longer content droughts, then it gets harder to justify the subscription. Which is why you're seeing so much negativity surrounding Endwalker. At least the graphic update is something we'll all see, even if some might not care about it. Considering how aesthetic focused this game is, the graphic update is a much bigger deal for a lot of players. Duty Support... just isn't.

Of course, this all is only relevant if Duty Support took away from Endwalker. Like I said, would Island Sanctuary be any different if Trusts never existed? Probably not.