Increase the Skill Floor for Dungeons Next Expansion

[ASkellington]

I don't see why they couldn't.

There are plenty of existing dungeons MSQ ones at that that are the difficulty I would expect.

Mt. Gulg? While yeah there is less forced breaks between packs of mobs (you can pull 3 for instance), the trash actually hits hard for once. They don't want people to pull wall to wall constantly? Make trash more threatening. While I think Boss #2 is a snooze, 1 and 3 are fine. Amaurot has trash that is likewise more threatening. If people want to wall to wall they can, but it won't be as easy as it is currently.

Another thing? Unavoidable damage can be more frequent and less predictable. Why don't we have more bosses that will randomly hit a player that isn't the tank? Why don't we have raid wide damage we can't avoid under every 60s? Have you SEEN a healer's tool kit? They have no less than 4 answers to damage and most of them ARE up every 60s. A raid wide every 30 isn't going to kill them.

Tankbusters can also be more frequent. Hell, the bosses can just auto attack harder than they do and actually may want WHM or AST to pop a Regen/A. Benefic.

Wind ups can be shortened. I don't need a telegraph lasting for 8s when 5 or 6 is just fine.

It is not that hard to make dungeons more challenging and not be brutal.

[sindriiisgaming]

honestly, all that will do is make it even harder to do ur dalies.. just make dungeons fun and more exploritory. its a DUNGEON. ur supposed to be exploring and using secret alleys and latches and levers

[RitsukoSonoda]

I just ran through it as WHM. It's easy as hell now. I would love to have tried it on release, it sounds more fun.

There were a few other ARR dungeons that got nerfs as well shortly after their release. The one with the demon wall comes to mind where it originally spawned bees during the fight.

I think Coincounter in aurum vale now has AoE markers on it's attacks when it didn't before, which meant you had to pay attention to the skill names that appeared on it's "cast bar" to know where to move.

Raising the skill floor honestly has been something the game has needed for years. Instead they've done the opposite while hiding behind the word "accessibility". It should have been setup as a gradual incline to make potential transitions into upper tier endgame content smoother for the general player base which is something most games do. Instead of the approach we have currently where going from MSQ into EX/Savage is about like telling a kid to ride a motorcycle when they've never even rode a bicycle without training wheels installed. This scaling difficulty or skill floor can easily be achieved without most players even noticing it. Scaling or raising the skill floor does not require hard skill checks like the early bosses in Armored Core 6. However that title is still going very strong despite it's design filtering it's player base.

[Supersnow845]

Raising the skill floor will never do anything because we all know people will just quit and complain rather than rise to the challenge, square has already said the biggest dropout point based on pure numbers in the game was when one of the MSQ quests required you to get level 5 gear from a vendor right next to the quest, they changed it so the brand new adventurer gear was ilvl 5 so you only needed to buy a hat and it’s still a massive dropout point

What they need to do (which we have all discussed ad nauseum) is add more long term battle content for people who understand how the jobs work and want to have fun but don’t really want to be shackled to the amount of high end content EW had

As for dungeons specifically orbornne, Pharos Sirius and a few others showed that making a dungeon harder than about dead ends is just gonna make people complain, resident sleeper dungeons like smileton could be bought up to dead ends level but honestly on the dungeon front they just need to make them more interesting without making them harder, 2 packs wall 2 packs boss repeat is so good damned stale at this point, and no trying to make the packs slightly different a La first packs of lapis manulis doesn’t count

[Noox-115]

Yes please

[RitsukoSonoda]

Raising the skill floor will never do anything because we all know people will just quit and complain rather than rise to the challenge, square has already said the biggest dropout point based on pure numbers in the game was when one of the MSQ quests required you to get level 5 gear from a vendor right next to the quest, they changed it so the brand new adventurer gear was ilvl 5 so you only needed to buy a hat and it’s still a massive dropout point

What they need to do (which we have all discussed ad nauseum) is add more long term battle content for people who understand how the jobs work and want to have fun but don’t really want to be shackled to the amount of high end content EW had

As for dungeons specifically orbornne, Pharos Sirius and a few others showed that making a dungeon harder than about dead ends is just gonna make people complain, resident sleeper dungeons like smileton could be bought up to dead ends level but honestly on the dungeon front they just need to make them more interesting without making them harder, 2 packs wall 2 packs boss repeat is so good damned stale at this point, and no trying to make the packs slightly different a La first packs of lapis manulis doesn’t count

Honestly... The majority of the people that were complaining about things in this game being too hard probably complain about everything they find even remotely inconvenient to them whether it's in game or IRL, Not really the people IMO anyone should be giving any attention to since they prioritize their own personal convenience over the experience and/or safety of others depending on the situation.

[Supersnow845]

Honestly... The majority of the people that were complaining about things in this game being too hard probably complain about everything they find even remotely inconvenient to them whether it's in game or IRL, Not really the people IMO anyone should be giving any attention to since they prioritize their own personal convenience over the experience and/or safety of others depending on the situation.

I agree in principle but losing half the casual playerbase because “eh you are just too lazy to play decently” isn’t going to do much for the games image and a massive loss of players would probably further contract the amount of content square makes for the game

It’s why SB got this right, if you wanted to be an MSQ enjoyer about the hardest thing you’d have to deal with is shinryu, but there was a massive volume of content if you wanted more, basically just use the MSQ enjoyers as money farms to actually build the main contents of the game, I’ll sacrifice a few easy dungeons for getting HOH, eureka and 2 ultimates in one expansion

[RitsukoSonoda]

I agree in principle but losing half the casual playerbase because “eh you are just too lazy to play decently” isn’t going to do much for the games image and a massive loss of players would probably further contract the amount of content square makes for the game

It’s why SB got this right, if you wanted to be an MSQ enjoyer about the hardest thing you’d have to deal with is shinryu, but there was a massive volume of content if you wanted more, basically just use the MSQ enjoyers as money farms to actually build the main contents of the game, I’ll sacrifice a few easy dungeons for getting HOH, eureka and 2 ultimates in one expansion

Except it wouldn't be losing half the casual player base. The ones that were complaining were only a small part of it, and odds are most of those complainers would keep playing while complaining non stop.

[Supersnow845]

Except it wouldn't be losing half the casual player base. The ones that were complaining were only a small part of it, and odds are most of those complainers would keep playing while complaining non stop.

It would be a significant enough amount for it to matter, it’s why we have the current dungeon design we have, like I said I’ll sacrifice the dungeons if it means square can milk the MSQ enjoyers for sub money to make things like eureka

As much as I have people to find smileton to be the peak of difficulty just cutting them out of the game because “they are a tiny minority” when we have confirmation from square they aren’t just isn’t really the right approach here

[RitsukoSonoda]

It would be a significant enough amount for it to matter, it’s why we have the current dungeon design we have, like I said I’ll sacrifice the dungeons if it means square can milk the MSQ enjoyers for sub money to make things like eureka

As much as I have people to find smileton to be the peak of difficulty just cutting them out of the game because “they are a tiny minority” when we have confirmation from square they aren’t just isn’t really the right approach here

However square doesn't have the data to actually disprove that the loss would be more than a tiny minority. They're simply counting all players that haven't done the content considered as high endgame and simply lumping all of them together.