So uh..why does this forum hate FFXIV youtubers so much?

[Renathras]

I really don't understand it.

It doesn't.

It's more people hate folks that are eternally negative of the game and post incessantly about it trying to use YouTube content creators, often ones they badmouthed in the past when said creators were positive about the game, to support their positions and speak for them, as well as presenting those opinions as authoritative. Basically: Appeal to authority fallacy.

They also like to use anyone not agreeing with said creators (or the negative posters) as "proof" of this fantasy they have that the FFXIV community is "toxic positive" to the point of rejecting any negativity...because the community doesn't appreciate terminal/perpetual negativity (which isn't unique to the community; Humans in general dislike spending time around people that are perpetually dour) nor does it appreciate attacks on the community/players. Mainly because no one likes being insulted and attacks on other players are not critiques of the game. Case in point:

The most important rule applies: If someone criticizes FFXIV, they will be hated.


Edit: This is not a good thing, and it happens way too much in this community.

...it really doesn't.

That used to be fairly true, but I've personally found you can be critical of the game, but as long as you are so respectfully, people don't hate on you. It's more often people who are being negative and insulting who have this illusion you can't be critical at all. People like to use this "the community hates anyone who criticizes the game" as a fig leaf shield against people being critical of them personally being kind of jerks. That is, negative people who are also being jerks to others try to act like people hate them for being negative of the game, not for them being jerks.

The double irony is that here on this forum in particular, the negatives outweigh the positives. A negative post here will get dozens of upvotes and streams of reinforcing replies while a positive one is lucky to get double-digit likes and such posters are routinely attacked and dogpiled on by the negative posters who seem to prefer being negative to other players than they often are critical of the game itself.

Which will continue so long as the more moderate critical voices, the people who are negative towards the game but otherwise respectful, continue to support the negative toxic voices rather than point out when they're unfairly attacking others.

[Zairava]

I don't really think it's a "hate" thing at large, but people who hate them unjustly will inevitably exist, as for most things. It's more the unnecessary chain of threads being made here with the videos instead of just lobbing it all into the first thread to keep it contained (even I find it unnecessary, frankly. I'd prefer if it was all contained into one thread). There's also the people who feel like we aren't forming our own opinion when we've had these concerns years longer than they have been vocal about.

There's the vocal users who "don't care" and it proceeds to derail the entire thread because not only does it actually serve no purpose for discussion, it feels like the content creators' concerns and feedback don't matter. Content creator or not, they are another player of the game, and content creators have far more influence and popularity than we do to take these concerns directly to YoshiP himself.

I watch MrHappy, I've kept up to date with this whole bit with Zepla despite not watching her otherwise because I feel like her concerns come with a genuine passion for wanting the game to be the best it can be, which happens to aligns with my concerns and my desire to see the game be better than it currently is, because it absolutely can be.

For me personally, I'm among those who had these concerns toward the game for much, much longer than they have been vocal about it for. While it was initially job design, now it's both job design and content longevity. Which are both valid concerns whether you want them to be or not.

I view their concerns as veteran players of the game, not as content creators, which is why I've been seen to bluntly retaliate at people who dismiss them unjustly regardless of how they feel about content creation. They have a more powerful voice than we do here, where it feels like we're shouting into the void.

[Ivtrix]

It doesn't.

It's more people hate folks that are eternally negative of the game and post incessantly about it trying to use YouTube content creators, often ones they badmouthed in the past when said creators were positive about the game, to support their positions and speak for them, as well as presenting those opinions as authoritative. Basically: Appeal to authority fallacy.

They also like to use anyone not agreeing with said creators (or the negative posters) as "proof" of this fantasy they have that the FFXIV community is "toxic positive" to the point of rejecting any negativity...because the community doesn't appreciate terminal/perpetual negativity (which isn't unique to the community; Humans in general dislike spending time around people that are perpetually dour) nor does it appreciate attacks on the community/players. Mainly because no one likes being insulted and attacks on other players are not critiques of the game. Case in point:



...it really doesn't.

That used to be fairly true, but I've personally found you can be critical of the game, but as long as you are so respectfully, people don't hate on you. It's more often people who are being negative and insulting who have this illusion you can't be critical at all. People like to use this "the community hates anyone who criticizes the game" as a fig leaf shield against people being critical of them personally being kind of jerks. That is, negative people who are also being jerks to others try to act like people hate them for being negative of the game, not for them being jerks.

The double irony is that here on this forum in particular, the negatives outweigh the positives. A negative post here will get dozens of upvotes and streams of reinforcing replies while a positive one is lucky to get double-digit likes and such posters are routinely attacked and dogpiled on by the negative posters who seem to prefer being negative to other players than they often are critical of the game itself.

Which will continue so long as the more moderate critical voices, the people who are negative towards the game but otherwise respectful, continue to support the negative toxic voices rather than point out when they're unfairly attacking others.

This, children, is what we call gaslighting 101.

[DPZ2]

This, children, is what we call gaslighting 101.

I thank you for your example of gaslighting... Oh, you meant the post you were responding to? Weird.

[Ivtrix]

I thank you for your example of gaslighting... Oh, you meant the post you were responding to? Weird.

Cute uno reverse attempt but this isn’t it champ thanks for playing

[Renathras]

Cute uno reverse attempt but this isn’t it champ thanks for playing

No, he's actually right.

Your reply to me was gaslighting. So you know, it's possible for you to be doing a thing that you accuse others of. It's actually very very common. People try to use "herp derp uno reverse" as a defense to allow them to do the very things they condemn, but it's not actually a defense at all.

The worst part is, what I did wasn't even gaslighting:

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which a person or group causes someone to question their own sanity, memories, or perception of reality. People who experience gaslighting may feel confused, anxious, or as though they cannot trust themselves.

Source: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...hting-examples

Technically, neither of us directly engaged in gaslighting, though what you did is similar to the Diverting case, so much closer than what I did, which was presenting an actual argument based on reality.

.

EDIT:

k

Appeal to ridicule fallacy.

[Noumenon]

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k

[Bonoki]

k

This is cringe

[ZephyrMenodora]

No, he's actually right.

Your reply to me was gaslighting. So you know, it's possible for you to be doing a thing that you accuse others of. It's actually very very common. People try to use "herp derp uno reverse" as a defense to allow them to do the very things they condemn, but it's not actually a defense at all.

The worst part is, what I did wasn't even gaslighting:



Source: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...hting-examples

Technically, neither of us directly engaged in gaslighting, though what you did is similar to the Diverting case, so much closer than what I did, which was presenting an actual argument based on reality.

.

EDIT:



Appeal to ridicule fallacy.

Honestly there are so many misuses of the word "gaslighting" in these forums that it's just not worth the effort pointing it out. However, once it is used, even incorrectly, it will get some clapping seals to go along with it lol.