[MONK] My issues with the MONK, especially compared to other jobs.

[Taranok]

So, my 2 cents on monk as well. Riddle of Wind is an atrociously designed ability. It is 750 potency over 15 seconds by...auto attacking sooner. Its damage is fine, but its animation is horrifically underwhelming.

Also, Disciplined Fist should be locked while doing your Perfect Balance combo, all the way up to the finisher. The 'natural' rotation of pressing PB on cooldown has the player drop disciplined fist and it feels rather cumbersome to design a mechanic like this, regardless of the player's ability to deal with it or not.

I'm never sure what you guys mean by clunky in this forum, everyone says everything is clunky in some way on these forums, but I will give you this; MNK has IMHO terrible hand to hand animations. I don't care that they're unrealistic, although a lot could be improved in terms of delivering impact. I mean they are straight up ugly, nonsensical, too slow, or the key poses are questionable.

Typically, clunky means rough, unfinished, jarring, or otherwise 'not smooth.' There are multiple use cases for it, including but not limited to:

• Animation locks that prevent smooth execution of abilities.
• Network lag that prevents smooth execution of abilities.
• Too many abilities that feel like you need to use them simultaneously and you lack the action economy to smoothly deal with them.
• Animations that are rough, interrupted, or so long they are cut all the time.
• The class regularly putting you into a compromising position as part of its normal, natural rotation.

Monk kind of deals with all of these except animation locks. However, the biggest offender of E.G. animation clipping has to be bloodletter on Bard. That ability is a literal GCD in length and never, ever, fully casts. It's a giant red + that is constantly interrupted and is insanely noticeable.

[VentVanitas]

You dont have Blitz in low level, forgot to mention.
And you dont get the Formless Buff after PB.

In this scenario you'd want to generally choose Dragon Kick after PB at the level 50ish range. I don't think this is even the most pressing issue on the job anyway, some random quirks specific to the level 50 range is frankly insubstantial.

Also, Disciplined Fist should be locked while doing your Perfect Balance combo, all the way up to the finisher. The 'natural' rotation of pressing PB on cooldown has the player drop disciplined fist and it feels rather cumbersome to design a mechanic like this, regardless of the player's ability to deal with it or not.

What...? PB isn't intended to be pressed on cooldown, nor do you even drop Twin Snakes for any significant amount of time, unless you're playing at like... zero skillspeed.

[Taranok]

In this scenario you'd want to generally choose Dragon Kick after PB at the level 50ish range. I don't think this is even the most pressing issue on the job anyway, some random quirks specific to the level 50 range is frankly insubstantial.



What...? PB isn't intended to be pressed on cooldown, nor do you even drop Twin Snakes for any significant amount of time, unless you're playing at like... zero skillspeed.

So you're telling me that a new player, ignorant of the concept of BIS, is going to know this? The fact I, a non-monk main, have regularly noticed it with random gear is more than enough proof that it's enough of a problem to need addressing.

And yes, every ability in its natural rotation is used on cooldown. Even abilities with charges, as PB's charge is less a "This is for double bursting," and more a "This is to prevent drift." That's part of why it's called a 'natural' rotation and not an optimized one.

[Shurrikhan]

And yes, every ability in its natural rotation is used on cooldown. Even abilities with charges, as PB's charge is less a "This is for double bursting," and more a "This is to prevent drift." That's part of why it's called a 'natural' rotation and not an optimized one.

No, this is precisely wrong. Multi-charge skills are there for double-bursting. That is their intent. And if you used them as intended you'd find that PB flows just fine even at low SkS. At higher speed, you can exploit them even further but have to alternate Lunar-Solar-Phantom with Solar-Lunar-Phantom, but that's it; you do not drop DF when using Perfect Balance.

[VentVanitas]

So you're telling me that a new player, ignorant of the concept of BIS, is going to know this? The fact I, a non-monk main, have regularly noticed it with random gear is more than enough proof that it's enough of a problem to need addressing.

I don't think a new player is going to care, actually, considering that this is the first time I've ever seen someone complaining about something as insignificant as briefly dropping Twin Snakes.

And yes, every ability in its natural rotation is used on cooldown. Even abilities with charges, as PB's charge is less a "This is for double bursting," and more a "This is to prevent drift." That's part of why it's called a 'natural' rotation and not an optimized one.

it... quite literally is for double bursting. they didn't just make it 40s cooldown with 2 charges for shits and giggles, its following the same design as every other job in this game.

[Zairava]

So you're telling me that a new player, ignorant of the concept of BIS, is going to know this? The fact I, a non-monk main, have regularly noticed it with random gear is more than enough proof that it's enough of a problem to need addressing.

I'm not going to get into nitty gritty details on Monk here, but I'm going to comment on this specifically.

Why would, and should new players care? Not everything needs to be simplified down so far that optimizations get neutralized because someone who has hundreds of hours to even get to the endgame can not worry about it, they aren't even thinking about it. Old content is so inherently easy these days despite being harder comparatively to newer content it's not even remotely worth ruining the enjoyment out of players dedicated to the job at the endgame.

[Shurrikhan]

Also, Disciplined Fist should be locked while doing your Perfect Balance combo, all the way up to the finisher. The 'natural' rotation of pressing PB on cooldown has the player drop disciplined fist and it feels rather cumbersome to design a mechanic like this, regardless of the player's ability to deal with it or not.

No, it doesn't. There is no need to drop Disciplined Fist when playing optimally unless you're somehow avoiding even the slightest scrap of SkS.

If you're dropping DF, it's almost certainly because you're never allowing yourself to invert your Lunar/Solar order. You can and should be adapting it, especially if you're restricting yourself to extremely slow GCDs. Even then, it doesn't force PB delays, just the tiniest bit of extra thinking.

Why can I not continue the combo from the skill I last used?

Fair question, and with a simple but disappointing answer: They tied the formlessness to Blitz instead of to the consumption of the third charge of PB itself with Blitz just not consuming that buff, causing a small loss to available nuance in endgame but a major oversight to the pre-Blitz experience.

[vetch]

They tied the formlessness to Blitz instead of to the consumption of the third charge of PB itself with Blitz just not consuming that buff, causing a small loss to available nuance in endgame but a major oversight to the pre-Blitz experience.

I don't agree. Figuring out how to do steady damage by using PBs to farm crit Bootshines as much as possible without dropping Twin Snakes or overwriting Demolish when you must restart with DK afterward is one of the charms of low-level monk and is, frankly, way more interesting to me than the post-59 'you're a burst job like everyone else now, press PB to prep for the stupid burst window'.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't agree. Figuring out how to do steady damage by using PBs to farm crit Bootshines as much as possible without dropping Twin Snakes or overwriting Demolish when you must restart with DK afterward is one of the charms of low-level monk and is, frankly, way more interesting to me than the post-59 'you're a burst job like everyone else now, press PB to prep for the stupid burst window'.

...That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The problem with early PB is it literally costs you a form every time you use it because it removes what forms you had going in and doesn't grant Formless at its end, meaning that your only useful options after each PB are... Dragon Kick or Arm of the Destroyer.

This problem happens because they tied that Formless buff to Blitz instead of to having consumed all your stacks of Perfect Balance. I.e., you need Blitz for Perfect Balance to even function fully/correctly.

[vetch]

...That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The problem with early PB is it literally costs you a form every time you use it because it removes what forms you had going in and doesn't grant Formless at its end, meaning that your only useful options after each PB are... Dragon Kick or Arm of the Destroyer.

This problem happens because they tied that Formless buff to Blitz instead of to having consumed all your stacks of Perfect Balance. I.e., you need Blitz for Perfect Balance to even function fully/correctly.

It has everything to do with what you wrote.

Having to restart with DK after a PB combo -- having to figure on needing more GCDs before you can refresh Demolish and thus having to plan differently -- instead of getting Formless afterward and being able to re-enter your skill chain wherever your giddy heart desires, changes the flow in a more interesting way to me. I don't consider it a flaw.

I understood your position perfectly, I just think you're wrong.