What do we have to look forward to with Dawntrail?

[Sorimachi87]

Graphics update and MSQ if i had to pick two favorites. Rest, we'll see.

[Barwara]

Genuinely?
Graphics update
MSQ
New glamour
New housing items
Maybe extremes / savages
Maybe side quests (I really enjoyed the shadowbringer job quests for example)

Because dungeons, raids, and alliance raids I will do once, maybe twice, and then never again, unless I want the glamour or the tomestones. :/ (What really kills me is having to repeat content daily, weekly, for the farming of things. Just sucks the life out of me.)

[Renathras]

Less content than ever in terms of per expansion, per patch delivery, is not subjective at all. We're talking expansion to expansion, not overall. I don't know why you would assume otherwise, by that logic WoW players shouldn't have complained about Warlord of Draenor because they technically had more content than ever.

"than ever" would include HW, which had less. So objectively, it's factually wrong/false.

Now, you can argue why that "shouldn't count" or why HW gets a pass, but that doesn't change "less content than ever" being factually wrong to say.

"than ShB or SB" would be accurate, but wouldn't sound as damning, so hyperbole gets touted instead, and then gets called out. Then people get mad at the person calling out the hyperbole instead of the person wrongly using it in the first place.

You're right that "less content than ever" isn't subjective at all, it's objective. Which is what I said: "there's OBjectively not "less content than ever" (HW had less; handwaves can be made about "the game was still getting its feet" or whatever, but it's a fact)"

[Oizen]

Six new zones that are cut in half based on MSQ progression that are only designed with flight in mind
Eight new dungeons consisting of pulling 2 packs of mobs, hitting a wall, doing it again, fighting a boss, and repeating that 2 more times
Three New Trials, two of which will have extremes at release, but all 3 will start with 2 autos then a raidwide
One New City that will replace Old Sharlyan which you will now never go to again
One New endgame hub where you can exchange raid gear and tomestones, 99% of it will be dead space
Your job of choice getting another big attack move with a 60s/120s cd

But you can wear glasses and hats now (except hrothgar and viera)

[NekoMataMata]

Don't jinx it...

I mean if they manage to go any lower even the casuals might riot. I don't see that as a bad thing. Eventually we'll get change, regardless of whether it's difficult and painful or quick and easy.

[Tetsujin]

"than ever" would include HW, which had less. So objectively, it's factually wrong/false.

Now, you can argue why that "shouldn't count" or why HW gets a pass, but that doesn't change "less content than ever" being factually wrong to say.

"than ShB or SB" would be accurate, but wouldn't sound as damning, so hyperbole gets touted instead, and then gets called out. Then people get mad at the person calling out the hyperbole instead of the person wrongly using it in the first place.

You're right that "less content than ever" isn't subjective at all, it's objective. Which is what I said: "there's OBjectively not "less content than ever" (HW had less; handwaves can be made about "the game was still getting its feet" or whatever, but it's a fact)"

The HW with the massive artifact weapon chains? The Heavensward with THREE new classes that weren't braindead? The Heavensward which released more than 1 dungeon pet patch? The same one with Diadem (RIP lol) and no cut trial series? The one that introduced workshops and exterior housing changes? And scrips, and deliveries (IIRC), and specialization, and timed nodes, and in which gear wasn't copy pasted over and over and over again and so on? I'd actually be surprised if EW had more content in terms of just instanced stuff alone, but even if it did, HW was a way more rounded and complete expansion with hardly any of the lazy stuff you say nowdays, and they had probably less than half of the current player base and income flow but hey.

[Aldath]

Six new zones that are cut in half based on MSQ progression that are only designed with flight in mind

I swear that sea area in SB wasn't playtested without flight or diving.
When I hear someone mention how GW2's maps are more beautiful, I laugh... and then I cry, because at least they are fun to explore and there's stuff to do while you walk, even way before you unlock mounts.

[Rufalus]

Mr Square-Enix: Dawntrail will introduce the next chapter of our story.
....
Ok, thanks for coming.

Reporter: Will it have any gameplay changes?

Mr Square-Enix: [laughter] No.

[LittleImp]

The HW with the massive artifact weapon chains? The Heavensward with THREE new classes that weren't braindead? The Heavensward which released more than 1 dungeon pet patch? The same one with Diadem (RIP lol) and no cut trial series? The one that introduced workshops and exterior housing changes? And scrips, and deliveries (IIRC), and specialization, and timed nodes, and in which gear wasn't copy pasted over and over and over again and so on? I'd actually be surprised if EW had more content in terms of just instanced stuff alone, but even if it did, HW was a way more rounded and complete expansion with hardly any of the lazy stuff you say nowdays, and they had probably less than half of the current player base and income flow but hey.

People shitting on HW is just the new talking point. They think they can get away with it because a lot of newer players didn't actually play the game during HW. It's kind of like how people will just make things up about JP because the language barrier makes it difficult to fact-check. HW was a place where SE was still building out the core experience of the game, and a lot of features were implemented for the very first time; Systems that have become so incredibly core to what the game is now that people just take them for granted and consider them 'baseline' features.

[ReynTime]

People shitting on HW is just the new talking point. They think they can get away with it because a lot of newer players didn't actually play the game during HW. It's kind of like how people will just make things up about JP because the language barrier makes it difficult to fact-check. HW was a place where SE was still building out the core experience of the game, and a lot of features were implemented for the very first time; Systems that have become so incredibly core to what the game is now that people just take them for granted and consider them 'baseline' features.

But something something Diadem flopped something Gordias too hard ragequit something.
Speaking as someone who also played during Heavensward, the level of ragequit people bring up from back then is grossly exaggerated. I was in one of the largest FCs on Aether and practically nobody there stopped playing during Heavensward regardless of Diadem and Alexander pre-redesign. At worst the raid scene was in danger. But that scene was even smaller than the small percentage it represents today.
Those people also fail to grasp that not everyone dislikes the "janky" job design, and once again they love to exaggerate on the "unbalanced" mechanics ruining job meta ir the likes of PLD "being banned", when anyone can look up and see how many PLDs were actually recruited in the clears.

Even Alliance Raids were a blast back then. BECAUSE people died. I MISS the Wiping City experience. The 12 Simps of Venat series and even YorHa are such a snoozefest.