MrHappy State of Endwalker w/ Zepla podcast

[Renathras]

Welcome to the FFXIV forum, toxic positivity galore, and if you dare not like the toxic positivity and you "challenge" them by posting constructive criticism, be ready to be attacked, it's a common thing here on this forum.

This is so weird to me.

ANY time a positive thread is made, a dozen people post in it attacking the poster or insisting the poster can't be genuine and is only in a "counter" thread to a negative thread. If that's clearly not the case and people say it's not the case, then the people pointing out it isn't the case are also attacked.

If someone makes a positive post in one of the negative threads, they are relentlessly harassed and dogpiled, again by a dozen or so people, the attack posts are given double digit upvotes. Anyone who defends the person getting dogpiled or seconds their non-negative view also gets attacked.

Even when those people stop talking in threads and stop defending themselves, the negative posters will go on for pages and pages, quoting and agreeing with each other, badmouthing the person who wasn't negative. It's not even just attacks against people being positive, it's also attacks against people who weren't negative enough.

The amount of actual "toxic positive" people can probably be counted on one hand without using all one's fingers, while the number of prolific negative posters is several times that, and the amount of people supporting them/not calling them out for improper attacks is even more. This forum isn't "toxic positivity galore", and at this point that's a laughably ridiculous claim, even just looking at the first page or any given page of posts on any of these threads. Indeed, Titanalt getting pushback on THIS thread is unique, and he had to basically make three threads on the same topic, including trying to derail and bury one made by someone else, before finally getting any hard pushback, and he's still getting more support than the contra positions. We're seeing people turn on their own past positions (Stormpeaks having reversed herself from where earlier in this thread someone quoted when she said Zepla's words were meaningless back when they didn't agree with her), and double standards (as Zephyr pointed out). Even many of the people you're arguing with aren't positive posters, with some of them being negative in other threads.

.

Negativity reigns here, not positivity.

The few people being truly abjectly positive are such a minority of underdogs, it's laughable to suggest otherwise. Even I've been negative about the game some (though I know you call me toxic positive). Any objective person can look through here and see that the people being negative get upvotes, support, pages of people disagreeing with them, and pages of people shouting down and badmouthing anyone being positive. The idea that this thread is awash with toxic positivity and positive people silencing negative ones is abjectly absurd.

Actual conversations and debate are possible on this forum, I've done it, just more so in the role forums. I actually don't know why I'm not up there with Renathras for "hated OF user", I have a history of long, verbose posts, I think..

If you're negative, you get a pass. People that attack me for long posts aren't attacking me for long posts. They're attacking me for not being negative, or not being negative enough. I've seen long posts that get praise and upvotes because they're negative and not called out. And I've made short posts, even neutral-to-somewhat-negative, and still get harped on. It's like Zephyr pointing out that my post was asked to have bullet points and so on, but Titan's have not been and "watch the video" was sufficient; and that, as I've pointed out, whether I make long or short posts, they're attacked. The attack reason is a lie. It's nothing to do with the length of the posts. It's people that just want to silence opposition voices.

And, it turns out, that's a thing the negative posters here have a monopoly on at this point.

.

If this forum was filled with positivity, it was years ago. At this point, General in specific, has become HIGHLY intolerant of positivity. Even when someone makes a standalone positive post with no connection to any negative post, they're accused of not being genuine and their post is derailed almost immediately by negative posters, who get praise and upvotes/likes for doing so.

"toxic positive" posters are more than willing to engage with people being negative in debate.
More neutral posters are as well.
The only people directly trying to silence or bully into silence others are the negative posters. And as I say all the time and my sig alludes to: When you're attacking other posters, you are not critiquing the game.

[Oizen]

The toxic positivity problem FFXIV has is more of an issue on Reddit or Twitter, social media sites designed to be echo chambers and only push hype/big movements.
The reason you see so much adversity to it here on the forums is because everyone can actually voice opinions here, and its not all silenced by algorithms and upvotes.

[Veritas-Ancora]

I'm honestly surprised that the moderators haven't jumped in on his behavior yet.

And for anyone who doesn't know how to use the ignore feature, you click on the name and it's in the top-right corner of the profile. I suggest using it.

[Renalt]

I'm honestly surprised that the moderators haven't jumped in on his behavior yet.

And for anyone who doesn't know how to use the ignore feature, you click on the name and it's in the top-right corner of the profile. I suggest using it.

Believe me when I say no one will. I think only a select few do but the majority want these arguments. At least by actions that seems to be the case.

[OdinelStarrei]

...

I don't know man. I'm not sure if I can really get on board with splitting the positive/negative sides down that cleanly, even if those lines in the sand continue to get drawn. I have no idea when we got so polarized. And I can feel it happening to myself when I returned from my 2nd break from the expansion, where I immediately had a gut feeling that because you or someone who had a penchant for insulting other users or had a sense of what I saw as inflated self-importance were saying it, I automatically took it less seriously, and I think that's because I've had very negative previous experiences with your posts. Not that I was being disagreed with directly, but that when I tried to elaborate on my burning passion for this game, and lament the state of the community, I was met with completely condescending behavior, which I found very aggravating, but even then, I don't think I have ever called anyone toxic positive. I only directly go after people when they are being truly ridiculous or out of line, and when it's people who go too far, and I try to not get myself involved in situations, because the banhammer here is inscrutable. Some of my best posts have been deleted in either thread purges from me trying to extend olive branches or offer an alternate perspective, or are just disappeared for reasons I'm not exactly sure about to this day, while the forum itself burns for no real reason.

I think the reason "shill" is so popular of an insult in this forum, is because people who have become this jaded cannot see a reality where people can rationally defend Square Enix as a corporation when they've been lied to, insulted, doxxed, and ignored for this long. It's life on the fringes. So some of that pent-up resentment gets redirected, I think, the vengeance of those who feel they were silenced unjustly. Again, I feel it. Whenever I see someone praise Yoshi-P, I ask myself, "Why are you doing that for someone who doesn't care about you think, or this game when you actually look into it? You're being tricked, misled. They will abandon you like they abandoned us, just wait your turn." because that's how badly the entire situation is being perceived right now when certain game changes cause long-term social groups to break down. What you're seeing now is a critical mass who now may have been people who have been galvanized after having someone, literally anyone, finally validate them after being ignored at best, ostracized at worst for years now. Or I guess, us, if you put me in that camp as many do. I can't remember a time when this community was this... almost fractured in stealth, and whenever there is a shake up, instead of it being a discussion, it's literally an earthquake.

I would like to think that my posts are meant to appeal not to people who hate the game for cool internet points, but rather people who love the game, but have severe grievances with Square Enix themselves and their recent methods or lack there of of communication of certain issues, moderation of the community, and devolution of game mechanics. That's my actual intent. But people say that I hate the game and want it to fail. And that by extension rolls me into Jojoya's signature, as someone who is just so "perpetually angry" that I'm actually just a target to be mocked because of my attachment, and investment into the product.

It's honestly really weird. When I first started really trying to throw out my opinion on stuff, I naively thought that everyone was on the same page, and that we all wanted to the game to be better. Imagine my shock when people said I was a horrific elitist and that I probably wanted everyone who didn't have an intimate understanding of esoteric FFXIV rotations, mechanics, and systems to be executed in the streets. When really I just wasn't the biggest fan of the tank reworks. I don't want anyone silenced the way I was silenced. But I also would like to broach the topic that even if no one is silenced, it is effectively irrelevant, because Square Enix is deaf. They are responsible for all of this discontent. They don't moderate discussion, because they are just not looking at it. They don't do literally anything consistently except stay deathly silent about everything unless PR and Yoshi-P's face is on it.

I know we have never agreed on...probably anything at all. But I am telling you, that it is not just the "negative" posters who are doing this. How do I know it wasn't you, or someone on your side, who tracked me down on discord and sent death threats to me from a dummy protonmail account? How do I know it wasn't you, or someone on your side, who tracked me down in-game to harass me through a bot account because I continuously lambast SE for their complete lack of communication, tone deafness, and that I heavily criticized the insanity that was the recent EN Fanfest that they didn't get the ticket for? I'm actually not accusing you, but I'm using that as an example for the paranoia and hatred that is barely concealed under the skin of this forum, this game, and the community at large whenever discourse gets like this. The fact that I wasn't surprised that someone started coming after me really says all that needs to be said.

Like, I just want to talk about the game I like, and I want the developers to talk to us a bit more often so we don't get blindsided, or that it doesn't take an eternity for feedback to be implemented. But a FFXIV sycophant or borderline cultist will always hate me for not praising the game unjustly. And there it is again, the "othersiders". Like I said before, if people are still enjoying things, yeah, I'm a bit baffled. But more than anything else, I'm just jealous and melancholic that I can't share those positive feelings with them anymore.

"If you aren't with us, you're against us." and it's a absolute tragedy people believe that is a fact around here.

I got time, man. Or I guess I don't, I'm unsubbed. If you wanna just talk about it, we can do that here. I honestly don't think anyone here is so innately terrible, and self unaware that they can't at least try to be empathetic all around.

[Troxbark]

Am I late for the shills that reply "THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THE GAME, I AFK IN LIMSA AND DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"?

[ZephyrMenodora]

Am I late for the shills that reply "THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THE GAME, I AFK IN LIMSA AND DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"?

The only people who say this are people like you. No one else has said this.

[Troxbark]

The only people who say this are people like you. No one else has said this.

Anyone who doesn't think the game could do better is basically saying this.

The quote still stands.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Anyone who doesn't think the game could do better is basically saying this.

The quote still stands.

Okay - if thinking that is how people think makes the forums more exciting for you, have at it. Most of us can actually understand nuance that I guess others aren't capable of.

Believe me when I say no one will. I think only a select few do but the majority want these arguments. At least by actions that seems to be the case.

Despite how often I end up speaking out against some of the behavior here, I'd be far happier if it didn't exist. Unfortunately two of the posters with the most problematic personalities here are also the two people who have an endless supply of alt accounts, so their presence here is a lot stronger than everyone else's. One is purposely disruptive on a regular basis and does everything they can to be irritating (necroing dead theads, often their own dead threads - or just creating irritating personas where they even use their alternate personalities in their own threads), and the other just regularly rude.

I was made fun of on multiple occasions for blocking a lot of people here; I eventually unblocked them all. But the regular rude behavior from the one was too much and I just reblocked them and all their known alt accounts. I do wish I had it in me to just watch them be rude to people every thread and not say anything about it though. I'd save a lot of time and post count.

[Jojoya]

Like, I just want to talk about the game I like, and I want the developers to talk to us a bit more often so we don't get blindsided, or that it doesn't take an eternity for feedback to be implemented. But a FFXIV sycophant or borderline cultist will always hate me for not praising the game unjustly. And there it is again, the "othersiders". Like I said before, if people are still enjoying things, yeah, I'm a bit baffled. But more than anything else, I'm just jealous and melancholic that I can't share those positive feelings with them anymore.

"If you aren't with us, you're against us." and it's a absolute tragedy people believe that is a fact around here.

I got time, man. Or I guess I don't, I'm unsubbed. If you wanna just talk about it, we can do that here. I honestly don't think anyone here is so innately terrible, and self unaware that they can't at least try to be empathetic all around.

It does no good to hold back in fear of things that might happen. The problems you mention about the community here exist in every gaming community and in communities outside of gaming. They're unavoidable if you want to be an active part of a community.

I've finally decided to use the Ignore feature more regularly and it does help. There will always be those few posters that choose to be disruptive to discussion for whatever reasons. If you have them on ignore, what you will see will be more constructive as long as others don't allow themselves to get provoked into responding to those individuals (which I've been guilty of more than once).

I agree that most of us here are interested in having good conversations about the game, whether or not we agree on certain topics. We have to make the effort to not let those trying to be disruptive get in the way.