Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[VerdeLuck]

This is a subscription based game. You acknowledge that this is a subscription based game.

If every expansion were to have the same exact lackluster content longevity as Endwalker, we could all just wait until X.5 and get through all of it before the next expansion launch.

Now imagine everyone who was unhappy with the current expansion, waited to buy the expansion and subbed for several months then quit when the expansion launched. How much profit do you think they would lose?

Now tell me. Is that something you would want to hinder the game's ability to improve? Because people like you completely ignore a dedicated part of the playerbase?

I mean, that's exactly what happens. The vast majority of players resub 1-2 months before a new expansion, buy the new expansion, then play for 2 months before unsubbing and waiting for the next expansion.
Looking at the content too, aside from a foray zone being missing and V/C and IS being added, there is pretty much the same amount of content now as there was in previous expansions as well.

[Zairava]

I mean, that's exactly what happens. The vast majority of players resub 1-2 months before a new expansion, buy the new expansion, then play for 2 months before unsubbing and waiting for the next expansion.
Looking at the content too, aside from a foray zone being missing and V/C and IS being added, there is pretty much the same amount of content now as there was in previous expansions as well.

We're a broken record at this point.

It is not the amount of content, it is the implementation of Island Sanctuary, the lack of meaningful incentives for criterion, DD not being a good source of exp for leveling, and even if by deliberate design, the relic being a glorified tome weapon.

[VerdeLuck]

We're a broken record at this point.

It is not the amount of content, it is the implementation of Island Sanctuary, the lack of meaningful incentives for criterion, DD not being a good source of exp for leveling, and even if by deliberate design, the relic being a glorified tome weapon.

It comes back to it becuase there's whining about something that if you look at the data, is not any different than its been in the past. The only difference between endwalker and SHB in terms of patch content so far has really been they replaced the Bozja equivalent with V/C dungeons and Island Sanctuary.
Which is why going way back to my original post in this thread, I think it's a case of people just parroting the streamer's opinion that game is bad, especially since the video linked was formatted and presented in a clickbait way.

It just seems like it's an excuse to trot out the "toxic casualism" bogeyman these forums have used for years at this point, and point to that as why you're specifically not having fun in this game. It's the toxic casuals who are preventing this game from being good, because they, idk what. Shield SE from seeing criticism? Stay subbed even when you're not having fun? IDK.

[Zairava]

It comes back to it becuase there's whining about something that if you look at the data, is not any different than its been in the past. The only difference between endwalker and SHB in terms of patch content so far has really been they replaced the Bozja equivalent with V/C dungeons and Island Sanctuary.
Which is why going way back to my original post in this thread, I think it's a case of people just parroting the streamer's opinion that game is bad, especially since the video linked was formatted and presented in a clickbait way.

I mean at this point I don't think you'll ever get the point we are trying to make here.

The content exists. There is literally no way to dispute that. The problem is there is no reason to do it unlike Bozja.

Bozja/Eureka at least has a playerbase, criterion doesn't because there's literally no reason to go back and do it. You could even just buy the mounts off the marketboard if you really wanted and could afford it.

[Lauront]

It comes back to it becuase there's whining about something that if you look at the data, is not any different than its been in the past. The only difference between endwalker and SHB in terms of patch content so far has really been they replaced the Bozja equivalent with V/C dungeons and Island Sanctuary.
Which is why going way back to my original post in this thread, I think it's a case of people just parroting the streamer's opinion that game is bad, especially since the video linked was formatted and presented in a clickbait way.

It just seems like it's an excuse to trot out the "toxic casualism" bogeyman these forums have used for years at this point, and point to that as why you're specifically not having fun in this game. It's the toxic casuals who are preventing this game from being good, because they, idk what. Shield SE from seeing criticism? Stay subbed even when you're not having fun? IDK.

But the streamer didn't say that and you just seem to be repeating the point that the amount of content is the same (depends on point of comparison), when the common complaint is about how it's implemented (e.g. trial series being baked into MSQ)/its longevity (and in some cases, the lack of a will to innovate on the existing formula... stuff that is initially enjoyable can grow stale eventually.) You can see e.g. here, here, here or here that these complaints have been persistent. If anything, it is the streamer which is channelling community opinion. So I think you need to retire that claim.

[Jojoya]

Unfortunately I pay to get content, not pay to invent content in my head

If you wanna roleplay go play DND

You got approximately 160 hours of 6.0 MSQ and roughly another 20 hours of 6.1-6.5 MSQ (part yet to come).
You got 13 new dungeons and 7 new trials (final of each upcoming in 6.5).
You got Pandaemonium.
You got Myths of the Realm.
You got Sil'dih Subterrane and Mount Rokkon with 3 different difficulty modes each.
You got Dragonsong's Reprise Ultimate.
You got The Omega Protocol Ultimate.
You got Eureka Orthos.
You got Island Sanctuary.
You got 2 new world boss level FATEs (Chi and Daivadipa) in addition to all the other new FATEs.
You got new crafting and gathering recipes and leves.
You got Tataru's Grand Endeavor.
You got the Somehow Even Further Adventures of Hildribrand.
You got the Manderville weapons.
You got the Omega sidequest.
You got the Splendorous relic tools.
You got level cap on all jobs increased by 10 to 90 (Except BLU which increased to 80),
You got Crystalline Conflict.
You got a new Leap of Faith puzzle at the Gold Saucer.

I'm sure there are some other things I'm forgetting but the general point is you paid for new content and you got new content. This expansion is not lacking in new content compared to Shadowbringers. Most of those things can be done repeatedly.

What is missing is your interest in and engagement with that content. That is what needs to be addressed.

Where did it miss the mark?

We're a broken record at this point.

It is not the amount of content, it is the implementation of Island Sanctuary, the lack of meaningful incentives for criterion, DD not being a good source of exp for leveling, and even if by deliberate design, the relic being a glorified tome weapon.

We've been trying to point that out for a while but few of those who are unhappy seem to want to acknowledge that it's interest and engagement lacking, not the amount of content to do.

One thing you didn't mention that I think has had a big effect is the 2 minute meta. Beyond the general issue of job design (also a problem), the 2 minute meta has effectively removed some player agency and that makes things less satisfying even if that agency is sometimes more illusion than real.

If the 2 minute meta is back for Dawntrail, then we'll truly know the developers don't pay attention to player feedback.

It just seems like it's an excuse to trot out the "toxic casualism" bogeyman these forums have used for years at this point, and point to that as why you're specifically not having fun in this game. It's the toxic casuals who are preventing this game from being good, because they, idk what. Shield SE from seeing criticism? Stay subbed even when you're not having fun? IDK.

No one is shielding SE from feedback unless it's the trolls stirring things up into personal arguments instead of constructive discussion.

The opinions of casual players are just as valid as hardcore players. Both are paying a subscription for the game. SE needs to take both into consideration.

I've said this in the past. I think part of the problem is this is a transition period for the game. Yes, they are focused on the new player experience heavily because they're trying to make the game friendlier to new players and give them a new starting point other than Gridania/Limsa/Ul'dah. We were told during the 10 year roadmap LL that the 6.x series was going to be that transition and so things wouldn't be quite what we were used to.

The important thing now is to make certain SE knows what changes during the 6.x patch series have negatively affected player engagement so they can be corrected in Dawntrail. That means people need to list their feelings clearly and constructively. The personal bickering needs to end if the feedback is going to have a chance of being seen.

Doubt anyone will see this as it will get lost in this thread pretty fast but.
I use to complain a lot about the negativity in these forums. You know what that does? Creates discussions/arguments like in this thread.
If people want to be negative, just don't engage with them. The moment you engage you create the circling conversations we always see. And this applies to whatever of the two sides you stand on.

Being negative is fine when it is being constructive. Engage with that - questions can help reveal useful information.

But do avoid engaging with the negativity that has no purpose other than being negative.

[Zairava]

We've been trying to point that out for a while but few of those who are unhappy seem to want to acknowledge that it's interest and engagement lacking, not the amount of content to do.

One thing you didn't mention that I think has had a big effect is the 2 minute meta. Beyond the general issue of job design (also a problem), the 2 minute meta has effectively removed some player agency and that makes things less satisfying even if that agency is sometimes more illusion than real.

If the 2 minute meta is back for Dawntrail, then we'll truly know the developers don't pay attention to player feedback.

Ah hell, thanks for pointing that out. 2-minute meta is a cancer that needs to be eradicated.

I could go on an entire book long rant about the simplification of jobs and combat design but I don't feel like busting a blood vessel right now lol. Maybe I'll make a thread on that soon if I can get it well composed

[Stormpeaks]

.

You got approximately 160 hours of 6.0 MSQ and roughly another 20 hours of 6.1-6.5 MSQ (part yet to come)

160 hours of movie, great, that's not actual content that you can play but sure.

You got 13 new dungeons and 7 new trials (final of each upcoming in 6.5).

And yet in expert roulettes all you can do is the same 2 dungeons a million times, fun eh ? As for the raids, once you got your gear, that's it, one day every week for like 2-3 hrs for reclears and you're done.

You got Pandaemonium.

Same.

You got Sil'dih Subterrane and Mount Rokkon with 3 different difficulty modes each.

Basically a one and done once you're fully done with it.

You got Dragonsong's Reprise Ultimate.
You got The Omega Protocol Ultimate.

Thank god for a bit of difficulty in this game. 2 pieces of proper difficult content for the entire expansion, great.

You got Eureka Orthos.

Which is still not anywhere near Bozja in terms of repetition.

You got Island Sanctuary.

Spreadsheet simulator that you do in 10 minutes each week.

You got 2 new world boss level FATEs (Chi and Daivadipa) in addition to all the other new FATEs.

Did it on patch day, got both mounts.

You got new crafting and gathering recipes and leves.

Really ? Thank god there is some new crafting, this is normal in the cycle of an MMO with crafting.

You got Tataru's Grand Endeavor.
You got the Somehow Even Further Adventures of Hildribrand.
You got the Manderville weapons.

Completely mediocre content, especially Hildibrand, it was funny the first few times, it's well past its time now, it aint funny anymore.

You got the Splendorous relic tools.

Once again, this is nothing amazing to have a bit of extra side content for crafter, idk why you say this as if this is some kind of revolution in content.

You got level cap on all jobs increased by 10 to 90 (Except BLU which increased to 80),

No way, so like an MMORPG ?

You got Crystalline Conflict.

That gives no rewards once you have done the series, I'd know as I do all of them, I did all the series in 2 or 3 days and theres nothing left for me anymore.

You got a new Leap of Faith puzzle at the Gold Saucer.

If this is content, so is going to the aetheryte to teleport somewhere else.

[Jeeqbit]

The point being made is really that SE does make a lot of content, it is just designed in a way that you are done with it a lot quicker than many players would like.

They make all these dungeons, FATEs, deep dungeons, variant dungeons, Island Sanctuary and it is content but that doesn't mean it is engaging content to many players and so they could get these bosses, all these mechanics and all these environments they worked so hard on for months and do something with it that makes it more challenging or more engaging over a longer period of time, which is where the arguments for things like Eureka, Bozja, relic grinds, or copying GW open world come in.

[CNitsah]

The point being made is really that SE does make a lot of content, it is just designed in a way that you are done with it a lot quicker than many players would like.

And more than anything else, " a lot quicker that it used to in older expansions". It's mainly that part back we complain about.