Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Zairava]

I'm guessing both of their next series of posts are about to get particularly spicy.

I'd personally prefer if we could all move on and actually continue an actual discussion, but knowing how this forum goes, it'll probably continue to get derailed into senseless bickering lol

[Vahlnir]

I'd personally prefer if we could all move on and actually continue an actual discussion

I agree. However, people choose to die on some pretty strange hills, so the bickering continues.

[BRVV]

After most my points fit more into derailing, i present you my take ... that has almost nothing to do with Zepla's video...

What i miss is things to do for the hardcore players, even though i am not one of them. I see people in my FC taking breaks or quitting entirely because they have nothing to do. The other things are longer time between patches and the predictability.

If the next deep dungeon is just gonna be another PotD with another animal transformation than what is the point? They seem to get too save with all of these. Like running the checklist.

In contrast we have new stuff like IS and VD/CD. Little rewards and no (big) group content... meh.

I personally would love a creative mode. A dungeon creator or something. Just look at Minecraft, Little Big Planet and so on. The devs of those games made the individual elements while the players create their own game. I feel like something in this direction will be good for FFXIV, because:

• We don't need big rewards for a creative mode: the mode itself - like creating dungeons and running them or make your own village IS the reward, therefore no fomo
• It provides something different to MSQ or Raids etc that always need writers and events and gear you can get... so it hopefully needs less dev time in the long run
• It can expand the "themepark mmo" idea even more

[ChrysOCE]

See, thank you for proving my point. This is why you don't get useful feedback, because you either just ignore it, attack the people providing it, or stuff lies in people's mouths and then attack them for it. For the record, my "laundry list" also includes the latest Variant Dungeon and Island Sanctuary, both of which are from EW and which I haven't started yet. I didn't even think about the new deep dungeon. But hey, I happened to pick one particular thing that's from a past expansion, and you immediately claim that's my entire list and then try to jump down my throat for it...and then you wonder why the doomsayers on this forum are ignored by anyone who actually matters (i.e. the dev team).

I didn't ignore anything. You were the one that said, once you had done your stuff, you had a laundry list of stuff to go back to, pointing out the ARR relic as an example.
Ok, so you have Variant/Criterion and IS to do. Again, if you are current, what long lasting content is there to do?
Current on IS? You can visit it once a week to set up your workshop. What reason is there to visit the island, unless you want to just idle about? What content, on the island, is there that sustains itself, outside of 15min weekly setup and forget?
Variant/Criterion - Variant - once you have the items/mounts (and, I am guessing, the bulk of people may not try and acquire every item with potsherds), what reason is there to go back in? It's possible to clear Variant in a fortnight, if you visit it once a day, 15min, if that. What long lasting content is there in that? Criterion - same issue, except now it's harder difficulty, hard to find people to do it with and worse rewards. Even if you stretch it out by only doing Variant once a week, thats a self imposed limitation. Not intended life cycle that has been designed into it.
Deep dungeon - maybe, though, at least on Materia, it's pretty much dead. There is one entry in top 100, for September. 2 From August (look to be from the same party) and 6 from July. Doesn't really scream community engagement. You can argue that is the communities fault. I would say it's up the developers to give us engaging content and that hasn't engaged.

So, no, noone who is current and doing EW patch content, has actually come back with EW content that can sustain itself over the life cycle of EW, that encourages you to log in and stay logged in. Instead, they point to stuff that, you either clear it and don't go back, or you go and find content from the previous expansions: Eureka, Firmament, Bozja, prior Relics.

[Renathras]

I did watch the whole thing...

I'm going to ignore you constantly throwing insults like you genuinely are unable to help it and instead note that your own reply - going point by point - was nearly as long as mine (and that post was longer since you replied to several posts), so clearly "long post" seems to be needed even by you to discuss the points.

But hey, you ACTUALLY mentioned the points, which is what I wanna do, too, so let's go with that!

.

1) That was literally my point. Did you not read two lines above that where I said in order to discuss Zepla's points, we needed to distill down what her points actually were? "Watch the video and discuss her points!" Okay, which points? What are her points? "WATCH THE VIDEO!" 'watch the video' is not a point. I outright said I was going to list her points. So you can't get onto me for doing the very thing I said I was going to do and that needed done.

2) Indeed. That's the point. It's not exactly a negative when it's a positive to some people.

3) "You just recap Zepla's points", do I need to tell you to read again? (Okay, so far you aren't really discussing her points so much as you're attacking my post...maybe it'll get better, let's find out!)

4) (Okay, not getting any better). I'm literally going through her video. If you have a problem with how she presented her points, attack Zepla for that. And nobody asks you to reply to a single one of my posts with insults, yet you seem content to do it unasked. At least my unasked actions are discussing THE LITERAL TOPIC OF THE THREAD.

5) "I guess it would weaken your point" - I'm sure you'll get there eventually, but perhaps you'd notice where she talks about that later and so I mention it later? My god, man, you're desperate for things to attack me over.

6) Again, if you have issue here, take it up with Zepla.

7) That's the question, isn't it?

8) Shocker? I say it all the time. I know you don't read my posts, as if you did, you'd know that already.

9) Again, this is a Zepla point. So you disagree with Zepla? I agree with her on Exploration Zone content. I think it's good because it gives people something to spend time on if they want it but it's not mandatory/MSQ, meaning people aren't forced to if they genuinely don't enjoy it. That's the secret to good game design. Have a lot of stuff for people to do that they can really spend some time on, but that's not mandatory so people engage in what they enjoy. It seems, btw, from one of Yoshi P's interviews, that they are leaning towards having another Exploration Zone in 7.X, so that'll hopefully be a thing and maybe people will appreciate it this time.

10) Hm? ZEPLA called out people saying that, I just repeated her. Are you REALLY this desperate to attack me? I mean, I say all the time some people here seem desperate to find anything they can to attack me over, but you're putting it to the proof.

11) "You just restate her stuff and add a tiny bit" - THAT WAS LITERALLY THE OBJECTIVE. Again, if you can't read things, it's hard to have conversations. I don't disagree with you on the pacing, btw. More balancing it out would be nice. On the other hand, "We're doing the FF4 story in FF14" was always going to be kind of predictable due to the nature of it. Hopefully they won't do that again in the future or will stick that kinda stuff to side stories.

12) What are you talking about? That was Zepla's point, not mine. So you disagree with Zepla now? I mean, it's fine if you disagree with Zepla, but understand you're disagreeing with Zepla (who you seem to love in this thread) not with Ren (who you seem to hate).

13) I don't mind you repeating yourself, but I have to repeat myself: What are you talking about? That was Zepla's point, not mine. So you disagree with Zepla now? I mean, it's fine if you disagree with Zepla, but understand you're disagreeing with Zepla (who you seem to love in this thread) not with Ren (who you seem to hate).

14) Find me a person here who likes the 2 min meta. I also think, of ALL things to go after me for, this is the weakest. Especially since I didn't say everyone hated it: "I think this is the single most universal complaint in EW. While there are a few people that try to defend it, the single closest thing to "literally (almost) everyone agrees" is probably that players overall seem to dislike the 2 min meta." "most universal" not universal, "there are a few people that try to defend it" acknowledging there is some minor disagreement, but that this is the "closest" thing to everyone agreeing with you're likely to find.

15) "Factually wrong" - then tell Zepla. She was the one that said you couldn't use it for leveling.

16) Stylistic complaints, you have a-plenty. The stuff right before were all quotes but I didn't want to "X...and Y also...Z", but whatever. Yay, something we agree on, even if you couldn't just say "I agree" without finding something to attack me over.

17) "Yeah she mainly plays CC, we know" - who is this "we" of whom you speak? I didn't know, and all the people in this thread saying they don't watch or listen to Zepla ordinarily likely didn't know, either. The irony? I actually agree with you here; I don't do CC at all, ranked or unranked, and just do FL (RW when there's an event, though I haven't done it yet in this latest Moogle Tome event), and I think it's a crying shame they don't seem to care much about FL balance or imbalance being all over the place, despite it being so consumed. I'd say it's probably the thing most casual PvP people dip their toes in...but I don't want you to DEMAND I provide a citation on this thing you agree with or you'll hammer me over it, so I just won't say it.

18) "Man if you wouldn't have made an insult in the same post that would have been a good point." - are you addressing this to Zepla or to my criticism of her doing it? Note I didn't include an insult in that paragraph.

19) Sorta, though it seems she thinks it's partly Yoshi P being stretched too thin by the company.

20) I mean, her take there seems to be moderate and nuanced. Not sure why one wouldn't like it, but...could you explain what you disliked about it?

21) Honestly? I don't know what people like about Ultimates. They seem to be longer, even more unforgiving Savages that have a neat story but you can't really enjoy in the middle of the fight and have to watch videos of people doing it (or your own recordings) after to see all the emotes and dialogue and stuff. I do understand the feeling, though, of doing something few have done, seeing things few have seen, and being one of the first people into something. I feel that way logging in the day of a new Exploration Zone and heading in for the first time, getting the levels to go to the new areas, etc. Add to that that people that have a close group they play and prog with get to spend time together that way. So I understand it from that perspective. What I don't understand is why one would be fun and another not, since they offer that same general experience, other than the mechanics being fun vs annoying. But again, I don't do Ultimtes, so I simply am willing to take her word on that one. I don't think it's unfair to defer to an expert about something one doesn't engage with personally, and despite common belief around here, I do defer to people when it comes to things I genuinely haven't and don't do and don't derive enjoyment from.

22) That's actually a really good question. I guess we'll have to wait for her next video to see what she defines as casual content? I guarantee you it won't just be MSQ, though, since she mentioned the relic grind/Exploration Zones typically being casual content earlier in the video...

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You know, you started off kind of hard, but towards the end...those are some good replies and some good points to talk about.

"Ren will probably be like "What i got to read others posts now???"" - I literally read your whole post and responded point by point to the discussion topics, despite having to ignore and step around all the insults along the way. As it turns out, I can take it (long posts) as well as I can dish it out. Go figure.

[MisterNublet]

There has been more content in this thread than the entirety of post-endwalker!

[AlexiaD]

holy mozzarella

Tried to quote this post

was met with :

The text that you have entered is too long (8256 characters). Please shorten it to 3000 characters long.

8256 characters

[Supersnow845]

^okay ren I’m gonna say this in the nicest way possible but NOBODY wants to respond to 21 individual points raised to the point you have to edit the post to dodge the post limit. BRVV only did it to attempt to show you the futility of trying to have a discussion when you are making 21 points per post

Distill zepla’s message down to her core 1-2 points then argue those, that way someone who actually wants to debate you won’t have your post be 9 pages deep by the time they actually formulate their response, then everyone can participate in the debate; rather than those who have an hour on their hands

zepla can afford to be longer and more free form because it’s easier to listen to 30 minutes of discussion than to read its transcript

[Kaurhz]

There has been more content in this thread than the entirety of post-endwalker!

To be honest...

If they monetized these threads or recreated them as some action drama or something, would probably make a killing, not gonna lie. There's some better stuff to be had here than on Netflix

[Ivtrix]

It really starts to make sense when some people are the way they are when you learn about their age.

goodness he is a fossil basically