Duty Support has now killed every required ARR to SB dungeon

[Amenara]

I was kinda surprised when I queued into Thornmarch for the first time since the rework. Thought to myself "crap, I forgot the kill order for the adds" and then was like "I'll get the big boss" so I could kite him around from the adds only to realize all of that is gone for a couple simple dodge mechanics. I kind of missed the small tank responsibility of keeping the king away from the rest of the adds and the off-tank keeping the gld and mrd moogles off to the side to keep them from aoeing down the arena.

Is it better for new players? Maybe, but I think I am gonna miss the little bit of jank and fun with the fight.

[Shurrikhan]

Well, the "hallway" approach is largely because of us (the players).

Step 1: Give "options".
Step 2: Purposely deny "option" even remotely proportionate reward, such that even its gil value is dead after week 2.
Step 3: Note how few people use the neutered option. "Well, they must not like the gameplay!" / "They must despise variance!"
Step 4: Remove options.

Yeah... that's definitely wholly on the community... /s

[Iscah]

Don't know why people call it dumbing down. Castrum Abania's second boss has more mechanics now I'm pretty sure. I do miss the elemental mechanic, but the changes as a whole on it are a weird outlier compared to the other two.

Hraesvelgr also feels like he has actual attacks now. Previously he just had the swoop attack, and while the platform-jumping was fun, there wasn't much actual fight beyond that.

Whatever you want to call it, there is no way it was necessary to remove the elemental tower mechanic to accomodate trusts.

I think it had to be removed to accomodate *players*. If they don't understand the mechanisms then the fight was a mess for everyone. The new version is interesting too.

I was dreading the AoE dodging being changed in Keeper of the Lake, but tanks also didn't know to tank one add close and the other far away

Trying to explain that to a non-understanding tank was hellish. Only happened to me once or twice, but if they're not responding to what you write in the text chat, then the only possible thing you can do is Rescue-yank them to the right half of the arena... and if they're that unaware then there's every chance they'll just move straight back to where they were standing before.

[Raikai]

It's funny that while they did that, they also made Castrum and Praetorium way harder than they originally were.

I personally don't think it's a huge loss overall, because dungeons were never hard to begin with, even when those encounters were more complex.

It seems that SE fully embraced that common dungeons should not have any sort of semblance to hard mechanics at all by design.

[Mikey_R]

Step 1: Give "options".
Step 2: Purposely deny "option" even remotely proportionate reward, such that even its gil value is dead after week 2.
Step 3: Note how few people use the neutered option. "Well, they must not like the gameplay!" / "They must despise variance!"
Step 4: Remove options.

Yeah... that's definitely wholly on the community... /s

What reward would keep the optional route favourable to do? Bear in mind, this is a dungeon setting, so you have 4 people to satisfy, all of which could have different wants and needs.

[Remember_The_Name]

Stay tuned for 6.5 patch. The Burn will be on the chopping block. The dreaded Mist Dragon lives here, haunting the hearts of players.

I wonder how strong they are gonna lobotomize this fight...

[Jeeqbit]

Stay tuned for 6.5 patch. The Burn will be on the chopping block. The dreaded Mist Dragon lives here, haunting the hearts of players.

I wonder how strong they are gonna lobotomize this fight...

I hope they don't. But it also got a lot easier than at release because of item level (although still had times where I've saved the healer or carried everyone through on a tank or healer).

When I first went into it without any of the new gear at the time, with some people who were also not well geared, it was riddled with wipes and for a few weeks at least, parties generally were wiping to that one. I wish it could just be like that forever.

I was kinda surprised when I queued into Thornmarch for the first time since the rework. Thought to myself "crap, I forgot the kill order for the adds" and then was like "I'll get the big boss" so I could kite him around from the adds only to realize all of that is gone for a couple simple dodge mechanics. I kind of missed the small tank responsibility of keeping the king away from the rest of the adds and the off-tank keeping the gld and mrd moogles off to the side to keep them from aoeing down the arena.

Is it better for new players? Maybe, but I think I am gonna miss the little bit of jank and fun with the fight.

I did the new Thornmarch Minimum IL when it got changed and I think it's actually so much better. It was actually very punishing and we just barely survived all the hits blind and probably got lucky to clear it in one pull. But of course it's not minimum in DF so SE must have known that.

[Amenara]

I did the new Thornmarch Minimum IL when it got changed and I think it's actually so much better. It was actually very punishing and we just barely survived all the hits blind and probably got lucky to clear it in one pull. But of course it's not minimum in DF so SE must have known that.

I think it's just more reasons for SE to have much tighter ilvl requirements I guess. In DF I really missed the old mechanics.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

That dumbing down is deliberate in itself. None of these mechanics were complicated. They could have made trusts be able to do them no problem. They chose not to.

If it was easy and cost effective then they would have. Clearly that would be neither, so they did what they had to do.

And no. Shadowbringers dungeons are not "easy" for new players going through the MSQ.

[AurumEnjoyer]

Introductory dungeons don't have to be a snoozefest, especially with how many times vets are forced to run them. Considering we have no midcore content between normal and savage, they should ramp up the difficulty to give a smaller gap.
Make the branches interesting and rewarding (aka stop treating your players as braindead), and people will play them. Hell, make it so you retain your abilities and just get potency downscaled along with ilevel so I don't feel like deleting the game after every roulette run I do.