I know y'all don't wanna hear this...

[ChrysOCE]

Honestly, good post, and yeah, this is the important part.

I think, as a community, people have gotten used to some things to the point they force it on others and, if someone doesn't do it, very much make their displeasure known, either through actions (pulling), behavior (impatience), or EXTREMELY long threads on the forums complaining about it.

Instead of just realizing that, if you que for things, you're on other people's time; it's not just them on yours. If you don't have 20 mins, don't que. If you que and get a quick run, awesome. If not, well, go in with that expectation and you're already prepared for the "worst case" scenario. : )

Be the change you want to see.

But that entirely depends on what you are talking about. If its pre-50, ok. Still, it's situation dependent. Post-50, why can't we expect people to play to the role's capabilities? At 70 above, for sure, I expect the tanks to know what their mitigations are and how to use them. I expect people to know what arm's length and surecast do. That a WAR will use Raw Intuition/Bloodwhetting (as broken as it is, it is what it is right now). That a WHM will use assize on cool down. Why is that too much to expect and being unkind? Are you seriously saying, even at a 90, we should just be ok with players who pull one group at a time and healers who just stand around waiting for the tanks HP to drop?

[Gullis]

Funnily enough w2w is hardest in low level dungeons, when tanks and healers have less tools to work with, dungeons bring less streamlined with pack amounts, and gear is more of a factor due to tome gear being unavailable. This can leads to situations where tank overpulls and healers struggle to keep up.

After 50 tho, there really should't be much of a issue w2w pulling tho.

Healers not dpsing when there is virtually nothing to heal is annoying tho, because it just slows down the run for no reason.

Had a healer only healer the other day in amdapor keep that literary just stood afk for 90% of the run, because the tank was single pulling. What are you even doing behind the screen at that point?

[GoatOfWar]

I'll always w2w whether people like it or not. If i'm specifically asked not to i'll just leave the dungeon because of how unbearably slow and boring it would otherwise be to play through.

[Payadopa]

Absolutely agree with the OP. It's a typical wanting to have your cake and eat it too kinda situation followed by rEsPecT other people's time. As if it taking 3 minutes longer is a big deal. Some people like to enjoy dungeons and not turn everything into a speed run. Obviously, it's also SE's fault for turning dungeons into the sad affair they are now and not telling players to stfu when they complained about Aurum Vale taking "too" long at times. You are playing a video game, it's supposed to take time.

[Saraide]

... But the combination of "by default, tanks should pull wall to wall" and "by default, healers should spend as much time DPSing as possible" is an absolutely toxic cocktail of unapproachability and is the reason you rarely see DPS as adventurer in need for 4-person roulettes. As long as you ask these two counterintuitive things, tanks will die, healers will feel put on the spot, and both will queue less and err on the side of DPSing, trading peace and absence of higher responsibility for a longer queue.

I know you're gonna get mad, but it's true.

Healing isn't hard. Tanking isn't hard. The way people expect these jobs to be played is counterintuitive and puts "respect for everyone's time" over approachable gameplay. There's no safe way to discuss in a tank's greeting macro that "I will pull fast until I die or have to use holmgang on trash" that doesn't put the healer on the spot, and honestly, the healer shouldn't have to tolerate "everyone's wall to wall until you say you're new or someone dies." And that doesn't even work because "this is a level 80+ dungeon, how are you new, you should know by now" still happens in a world where one can use duty support from the beginning to end of the game!

Look, just be kind, ok? And don't crack the whip or pull for the tank when he's trying to take it easy on a healer who clearly needs it, yet has to say "you can pull big" to cover their ass.

Overly DPSing healers are a bonus.

Wall to wall pulling is a bonus.

They're perks, not entitlements.

Just be kind. You're all so good at that when people conform to your expectations, maybe alter those just a bit to err on the side of kindness.

Thank you.

Incorrect. It is approachable simply because tanking and healing jobs are just that easy to play. Tanks especially. You use AoEs and you use your mitigation. That's literally all there is to it. Healer in dungeons isnt much harder either. I have wall pulled the last pull in front of the final tower of zot boss as drk with trusts. If alphi can heal that, so can you. You act like doing dps as healer is making it harder for you. That is actually incorrect. Healer damage in dungeon pulls is insane and will cause the enemies to die a lot faster, saving your resources. People who dont use their mitigations or their ogcd heals are simply bad at the game. They make their own lives much harder by not using the strongest tools of their jobs. These people refuse to use what makes these jobs so approachable.

[Supersnow845]

Healers I can more understand but I feel like people get frustrated with tanks because tanks are the exact same whether you are playing with 2 mobs or 20- you just put more stress on your healer

If the healer is comfortable the tank really has no grounds to stand on

[Rehayem]

Okay, I'll tell you something: I played games where as healer and/or tank you have to go slow with dungeons and mob pulls. Shocking, isn't it? However those games were specifically designed to be that way (key word: design). Aion was a prime example where going 1 mob at a time was normal, and having 3+ mobs healer had to do triple duty with healing. In TERA if the tank was properly geared, they could rush through the entire dungeon (there's no walls) and pull everything in one go. Ungeared players generally approached it with room-by-room instead (something like wall-to-wall).

FFXIV is designed to have 2 packs of mobs after every wall. When you start, I don't know, Dead Ends, you have first pack and a second right after, and a wall to stop you. What's next? The same thing until first boss. It's the same formula over and over, and at level 90 there's no reason whatsoever to single pull mobs, especially since both healers and tanks have just so much mitigation. In low level dungeons, I generally allow the sprout healer/tank to go slowly and at their pace because it's part of their learning process.

I, too, was a sprout learning to tank and heal, and I've mastered both because they're not that hard to play, game is literally holding your hand for the most part anyway.

[Zeastria]

Some people lack empathy and comprehension..
they're the one who will attack/point out others..
They also can't comprehend that other struggles or need time to learn.
I have seen many of them in this community..

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I'll always w2w whether people like it or not. If i'm specifically asked not to i'll just leave the dungeon because of how unbearably slow and boring it would otherwise be to play through.

Same for me, except lower dungeon where I might just slow down. But I won't be single pulling either.

Anything beyond 50? Yeah, no. Wall, or go home.

Even if all I get is a Freecure Mage in a goddamned The Dead Ends, I will not show any reprieve. There's no way you're (general you) new at that point. You'll either wall together with the party, or you will vote me out; I don't care, I won't say anything either. Learn now, or never.

[NekoMataMata]

There are some higher lv dungeons that are not w2w friendly, unless tank/heal are both competent... which is not always the case.

The only dungeons I can think of are the ones with the massive w2w pulls like Mt Gulg, and usually people are aware of it. I personally enjoy the massive w2w pulls, but it's not uncommon to see healers/tanks decide between themselves that they don't want to.

That's more of the exception and not the rule in 50+ content.

Besides that, if I'm tanking in any content that's not msq roulette, then I'm probably playing WAR. Usually get jinxed with a healer that overheals and don't DPS but sometimes I do get very special healers and it's good to be able to do things on my own with ease, especially when dps is so awful that I'm pressing BW 3 times a pack.