Yoshida-san - What's Your Philosophy for 2.0 Max Level Content?

[Kiara]

I'm not asking for ZNM, Sky, SEa, Dynamis. lord help us if we draw comparisons to XI around here, but I'd like to see content on that scale in terms of time it takes to obtain elite gear.

I thin Yoshi is more focused on leveling the play field for casuals and hardcore alike at more people having a fair chance at everything. I think he's done well with how accessible the good gear is right now, and provides a good challenge at the same time. But something needs to be there to drive the core community in my opinion.

Hi Red,

Agreed.

I'm glad that there's Max Level Content that casual and hardcore can partake in (everyone can try out Ifrit or Moogle, get pick up groups, etc.).

I'm just curious what (if any) Long Term Goal-Oriented Systems there might be. Something to be the impetus for the most dedicated, and that even casuals can partake in (at a slower rate (depending on their limited time online etc.)).

[Orophin]

And for sure, I agree, I'd love to see Disciples of the Land get involved somehow in the Max Level Content in some form. Your idea of allowing them to mine/chop/fish in special areas limited by the same system that limits Combat players is cool, but if the dropped Material only was from a Disciple of the Land getting it, what would the incentive be for a DoW / DoM to repeat content after they gain their drops?

It's definitely an interesting problem.

Perhaps, say, Ifrit did drop an "Orihalcum Ore" from the chest after beating it, but at a really low drop rate. But, tying into your idea, Disciples of the Land could also enter Ifrit's Bowl of Embers (separate instance) and have an attempt at a Gathering Challenge which would dramatically increase the drop rate of the Rare Items (like Orihalcum Ore).

At that point it would involve and incentivize both Combat Classes and Gatherers (and the Crafters would be able to help synth the super rare recipes).

I'd really like to see crafters and gatherers involved in "end game" content, but it's been made pretty clear that Yoshi plans to segregate them from most content. He did mention there's plans in 2.0 to make it to where a high level group would have to travel through a dungeon to go to a special forge or something to make some really good gear. (kind of like how you had to goto that special forge in Blackrock in WoW) DoH and DoL will also be included in Hamlet Defense, however I find it hard to believe that if they don't participate that it'll make it unplayable.

I just don't see it happening that they'll develop instanced content just for crafters and gatherers. Not that I don't support it, but that's just the vibe I get based on the direction the game is going. At least in WoW (and in FFXI) you could fish up specific NMs; they should definitely look into this.

[Kiara]

I'd really like to see crafters and gatherers involved in "end game" content, but it's been made pretty clear that Yoshi plans to segregate them from most content. He did mention there's plans in 2.0 to make it to where a high level group would have to travel through a dungeon to go to a special forge or something to make some really good gear. (kind of like how you had to goto that special forge in Blackrock in WoW) DoH and DoL will also be included in Hamlet Defense, however I find it hard to believe that if they don't participate that it'll make it unplayable.

I just don't see it happening that they'll develop instanced content just for crafters and gatherers. Not that I don't support it, but that's just the vibe I get based on the direction the game is going. At least in WoW (and in FFXI) you could fish up specific NMs; they should definitely look into this.

Hi Orophin,

Yah, the current vibe I'm feeling is similar to you... one can hope that once more of the Combat-related goals are in (and 2.0 is getting close to launching) that Yoshida-san and team might have more time to really look at Disciples of the Hand and Land and see how they can be better incorporated into higher level content in a meaningful way.

I'm definitely curious and excited to see how they get DoH and DoL into Hamlet Defense, and in this snippet from the 2.0 Documentation:

Campaign of battles against the dragon horde in the defense of Ishgard, with participation possible as any of the four Disciplines.

That sounds pretty cool!

[bobbygunz]

philosophy = gear grind/carrot on a stick model

[Kiara]

philosophy = gear grind/carrot on a stick model

Hi Bobby,

Very true. :P The question is:

Is the current, shallow "carrot on a stick" approach satisfying for you and most players? Is this sufficient?

Or do we want to see something more involved, engaging, interesting for max level content?

[Tango]

Long term goals! I like upgrade approaches to instanced content. Run a different loup every few days and collect keys to enter a harder area, get key item to enter boss room. Include small lockout timers like 48hour lockout (this helps them keep a high drop rate and not flood the econ with the gear. Include hard special condition NM's / random spawn NM's and lock jobs inside. Make certain NM's impervious to types of attacks. This prevents class stacking and promotes every jobs usefulness. Incorporate monsters that can't die w/o incaps. This is my ideal content.

[DarkDepravity]

I logged in today, for the specific purpose of writing a post that would contain pretty much exactly what the OP posted. Me vuw OP.

I would also like to know very specifically, (kind of in paralell to the point progression system) if the current droprates and RNG, is what we can expect for the next several years to come.

(edit for clarification: I'm not looking for a discussion/judgment on the merits on the current system and rates amongst the players, I am merely wondering what the devs themselves think of the future in this regard)

[Kiara]

Long term goals! I like upgrade approaches to instanced content. Run a different loup every few days and collect keys to enter a harder area, get key item to enter boss room. Include small lockout timers like 48hour lockout (this helps them keep a high drop rate and not flood the econ with the gear. Include hard special condition NM's / random spawn NM's and lock jobs inside. Make certain NM's impervious to types of attacks. This prevents class stacking and promotes every jobs usefulness. Incorporate monsters that can't die w/o incaps. This is my ideal content.

Hi Tango,

Thanks for adding some good ideas.

I definitely would love to see running alternate routes / paths to gain keys to then be able to reach a Final Boss. Or just having alternate paths in dungeons for different objectives that are also appealing.

The Lockout Timer is definitely a controversial topic amongst many here. I remember when the lockout for Dzemael Darkhold was announced (15 minutes), and many people had an opinion for or against the idea.

I think after seeing the drop rates now with Darklight Gear, and even stuff like Ifrit Weapons, I wonder if more players would enjoy having Longer Lockout Timers, but Much Higher Drop Rates?

Would people enjoy having, say, a 24 Hour Lockout, but have a 300% Increase to Drop Rate Chances for stuff like Darklight or Primal Weapons? (Of course on Darklight that might not even move the meter seeing as how super low the Drop Rate seems to be like.

Or maybe they can keep the cooldowns as they are now (15 minutes) but just up the Drop Rates in general?

I love the Incapacitation idea! It's a system that we've had for a long time, but has gone underutilized (sadly) for a while.

Incorporating Incapacitation (chopping of an NM Boss's Legs, Arms, Tail, Horns, etc.) to help unlock a Final Chest or increase chances for a Rare Drop would be great. It would encourage more parties to use a Variety of Jobs instead of Class Stacking for sure.

Special Condition NMs / Random Spawn NMs also sound fun and would add variety as well.