[6.0 - 6.4 Spoilers] An interesting video detailing Venat's polarizing reception

[Vyrerus]

You don't engage with it because it proves you wrong

This is some epic level cope, my Creationist pal.

The things that happened that negate Venat's statements, as I told you, and as the game shows are Venat's actions. It's almost as simple as you.

[thegreatonemal]

Okay, this is something I can work with.

Now, what if I were to tell you that I took that into account when forming my opinion? My opinion being that everyone involved was up to some incredibly messed up stuff. The Ascians took an uncountable number of lives in the pursuit of their goals. Venat took an uncountable number in the pursuit of hers. This doesn't change for me even if I give the benefit of the doubt and assume the writers meant for Venat to have examined literally every possibility and variable. I don't have any sort of moral outrage toward it. It's just a character in a story. I simply look at it and go, "ah, exterminatus. The Emperor's will be done." What got my goat was the lack of consistency and seeming walking back of some things.

That's it. That's my opinion on the character and its actions. There were plenty of things in Endwalker I didn't overly care for, this being but one. Did I think it over too deeply? Yeah, probably, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Moral quandaries are inherently interesting things, and they can make for some very enjoyable discourse when everyone is approaching from a place of logic. Stories and characters within them should be able to hold up under close scrutiny.

I'mma be real. Most of the people I know that took umbrage with Venat are either on or somewhere near this particular boat.

This is an opinion. Ain't got no problems with an opinion. We can argue the morality of it all day. I personally think that it was a fight, just like shadowbringers pit us against emet. We understood why he was doing what he was doing and we were set in our path so a conflict was unavoidable The ancients that support zodiark lost and what we find out in EW is that had they won they would have doomed themselves and the rest of the universe. We can say they were wrong in hindsight but what's the use in that? They fought for what they believed to be the best path forward, just like the other side did. Let me ask you something.

Are you gonna pretend like what I quoted there doesn't exist and then proceed to speculate about what could have or should have happened and pass that off as canon. Or claim that the story views Venat as a hero and seems to give her a pass for what she did? If the answer is no then congrats, you aren't like the people that have kept this particular thing going for the past few years. Would like a chat about this event without all the nonsense.

@Vyrerus . In your twisted version of the events. But I'm talking about the game not your headcanon.
1. She's talking about how Hermes set up his memory wiping gambit, it doesn't leave a lot of options available to take.
2. Its metaphor for the timeline of events why are you taking it literally? Besides you just ranting in bad faith. We know what happened but like any time related things that happen in this game we don't know if it was days, weeks, months or years. She didn't give up on her people, until they showed that they weren't gonna listen to anything, probably because their too traumatized by recent events. These are the survivors of the literal end of the world and they have a dark and shiny new god that they are placing their faith in.
3. You don't have any idea what was said that's just you assuming and thinking you're right because nobody can prove what was said.

[KizuyaKatogami]

. Or claim that the story views Venat as a hero and seems to give her a pass for what she did? If the

Her minion description literally calls her a hero word for word. The Codex calls her a Primal of Peace.

[Absimiliard]

Or claim that the story views Venat as a hero and seems to give her a pass for what she did?

Yeaaahhh, this is where I have to be "that guy," I guess. I did get the impression the story tried to paint her in a heroic light. The Omega interaction gives people the option to state their own opinion on the matter, but I always felt it strange the Scions were okay with it. I touched on this a bit earlier in the thread in reply to... Cleretic, I think? Regardless, it is what it is at this point. Mind you, it's not as if I expected some grandiose decrying of Hydaelyn/Venat to result given the number of characters aware of how all that really went down is very small. From an in-universe perspective, it would actually be incredibly stupid of them to reveal it to the masses. Given how much like real people that world's inhabitants are in many ways, I probably don't need to explain just how badly that could go.

Her minion description literally calls her a hero word for word. The Codex calls her a Primal of Peace.

Oh yeah, then there was this.

[thegreatonemal]

Yeaaahhh, this is where I have to be "that guy," I guess. I did get the impression the story tried to paint her in a heroic light. The Omega interaction gives people the option to state their own opinion on the matter, but I always felt it strange the Scions were okay with it. I touched on this a bit earlier in the thread in reply to... Cleretic, I think? Regardless, it is what it is at this point. Mind you, it's not as if I expected some grandiose decrying of Hydaelyn/Venat to result given the number of characters aware of how all that really went down is very small. From an in-universe perspective, it would actually be incredibly stupid of them to reveal it to the masses. Given how much like real people that world's inhabitants are in many ways, I probably don't need to explain just how badly that could go.



Oh yeah, then there was this.

Why would the people who would be dead or not exist if she didn't do what she did to keep the planet alive? I don't really get why you expected the scions to call her out on that, especially given that the end of the word had come back for round two. She also pays a price for what she did and acknowledged what she did was horrible and also why she did it, so that hope might endure the minion references this. The price she paid was permanent death. Also Emet doesn't forgive her for what she did at the end. He knows why, knows that it was the right call. Still caused him twelve thousands years worth of grief.

@the other guy. She was a hero to her own people. I'll have to go look at the minion. As for being the primal of peace that is what light represents, peace, tranquility. Just like zodiark is the god of darkness and activity. Nice try though. tally is 16, probably 17 but ima go confirm before I add it officially. Officially adding it now. The word hero isn't uttered in the description. What's that, another lie for you now. Should we start a tally on your lies too?

[Theodric]

The word hero isn't uttered in the description.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The word hero isn't uttered in the description. What's that, another lie for you now. Should we start a tally on your lies too?

The fact you make yourself think you're so right that you can't even do something so basic as read properly.

[Absimiliard]

Why would the people who would be dead or not exist if she didn't do what she did to keep the planet alive? I don't really get why you expected the scions to call her out on that, especially given that the end of the word had come back for round two. She also pays a price for what she did, permanent death.

Call her out? Not necessarily, but I do think it's exactly the sort of thing they would at least have had some kind of reaction to after things calmed down, given their natures as written. That said, what bugged me wasn't even their seemingly being fine with it. It was the lack of revisiting it after the fact, as the Scions are often wont to do. I found it curious such a startling revelation didn't invite discussion amongst themselves once the dust settled and the world was no longer in danger of destruction.

She was a hero to her own people I'll have to go look at the minion. As for being the primal of peace that is what light represents, peace, tranquility. Just like zodiark is the god of darkness and activity. Nice try though. tally is 16, probably 17 but ima go confirm before I add it officially. The word hero isn't uttered in the description. What's that, another lie for you now. Should we start a tally on your lies too?

In complete fairness, even if it didn't say it literally word for word, the description on the thing does paint a pretty heroic picture. The codex entry does as well. The Hydaelyn entry was added in... 6.1, I think? It's been a while. Might be wrong on the time frame.

[thegreatonemal]

The fact you make yourself think you're so right that you can't even do something so basic as read properly.

Pretty sure that's the minions name and not the description and the fact that you take all this umbrage with a minion that bares the greek word for hero So all this time you had issue with the minion? Why didn't you say that in all these years? Really reaching there and both of you jumped in to quote that too. So starved to correct somebody. Did it feel good? Should I include halves in your tally?

@above. Given their natures they already know why it was done and that it was the last resort. Why beat a dead horse at that point? They know how the world they are living in came to be and they know why it happened.

It states what she was to her people and it states what she did. She did all that so as it says, hope will endure. It's just a statement of fact. I get why they wanna paint it as hero worship. I just think their own bias against Veant and that section of the story colors their judgment. They should probably take a few steps back. But then again, they aren't really aruging or doing anything in good faith so of course they won't take that sensible option. Note how they'll probably focus on that part of my post and nothing else. Her codex entry reads to me as her faith in mankind being able to pass this trial, even if the version of mankind she knew was mostly refusing to do anything, because they were too focused on getting their old world back. If they could have looked passed their grief I'm sure the sundering wouldn't have happened. The entire narrative would have to be rewritten though too bad they don't even give us some kind of branching timeline like they did with the 8UC to chew on.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Pretty sure that's the minions name and not the description and the fact that you take all this umbrage with a minion that bares the greek word for hero So all this time you had issue with the minion? Why didn't you say that in all these years? Really reaching there and both of you jumped in to quote that too. So starved to correct somebody. Did it feel good?

? I’m not even going based off of the herois name. It literally says “you all know who this HERO is.”

And then also includes a quote from -Ancient HERO.

Also….i have mentioned the hero description. Numerous times. In many posts. Not starved to correct you seeing as i’ve been correcting you all day i’m quite sated actually.Keep flailing and trying to back up on how wrong you are. It’s certainly entertaining.