Does anyone else miss coils raid design

[Jeeqbit]

1) pre fight mechanics- coils raids actually felt like what you would imagine when you think of raids, they had mini bosses, they had trash packs

That's intentional though. They know that raiders aren't going to struggle with trash packs and would get annoyed going through them every time they re-enter, so they kept trash in the story version for Alexander and then put them as part of the quests and battle instances for Omega so that you only defeated trash once.

the raids felt like they had a real sense of progression in physical space

Even the earliest coils are still split up into instances though.

this is somewhat made both better and worse by T3

T3 is one of the best for "progressing through a raid", actually. Because progressing and fighting trash is almost all you do.

[Supersnow845]

That's intentional though. They know that raiders aren't going to struggle with trash packs and would get annoyed going through them every time they re-enter, so they kept trash in the story version for Alexander and then put them as part of the quests and battle instances for Omega so that you only defeated trash once.

Even the earliest coils are still split up into instances though.

T3 is one of the best for "progressing through a raid", actually. Because progressing and fighting trash is almost all you do.

Well that’s sort of what I mean, when people say “yeah but trash is trash” can’t you apply it to say E9’s opening, who dies to anything prior to brambles, should we remove stuff like that because nobody is ever going to die to it, the trash and the long instances (like physically long) make you feel like you are actually “raiding” a space, rather than just being teleported into a spot that may or may not make sense from a lore perspective

Yes they are split up into instances but you feel like you are making motion due to the size of the instances (T3 helps here despite its other weaknesses) or T4 being on a moving elevator that reaches the bottom in the cutscene of T5, or the fact that each of the areas’s zone names include how many yalms deep the current location is

Idk it’s just the little things that make them feel like “raids” not just over glorified trials

[vetch]

That's intentional though. They know that raiders aren't going to struggle with trash packs and would get annoyed going through them every time they re-enter, so they kept trash in the story version for Alexander and then put them as part of the quests and battle instances for Omega so that you only defeated trash once.

Problem with this approach is that it doesn't help sell the 'raidyness' of the raid unless the trash is actually dangerous. Normal mode 'raid' trash in Alex/Omega is even easier than some MSQ battles -- and this is optional content! Enemies that die effortlessly are forgotten effortlessly, too.

The only raid trash that makes you feel like you're breaching a facility is in Coils/A2S/Exploratory Zone raids.

[ReynTime]

I wanted more 'gimmicks' in normal dungeons like in ARR optional dungeons, but that's not the point of this thread...

So about raids, I do miss when they were more than just a series of Trials with a story. The mini-dungeon aspect before the final bosses were great, and even though people whine now about some of the Coils pre-boss mechanics I liked that aspect too, it made them stand out from trials, alliances and dungeons entirely by requiring something from the players besides just killing trash with AoEs.