I still miss my old thm

[syntaxlies]

I know they said they are adding some debuffs to the existing magic classes in 2.0, so at least we have that to look forward too.

I'm not the one saying differently, after all I did say they messed up (if you had read my previous post, you would know). I've merely helped point out the irony that despite CNJ being the Elementalist, really isn't.

yea, technically cnj is still an elementalist, but then again so is thm. When they announced jobs i was pushing for thm to get necromancer even though i knew wed never get that first round, it just made so much sense though.

[darkstarpoet1]

I'm not the one saying differently, after all I did say they messed up (if you had read my previous post, you would know). I've merely helped point out the irony that despite CNJ being the Elementalist, really isn't.

yeah, sorry let me explain what i meant.

you are correct whm shouldn't have been given only heals and buffs. they did need a way to defend themselves. them having a basic set of nukes to cover themselves and sleeping a mob when it's attacking them is fine.

my problem with whm though is it has both ways of recovering mp. shouldn't one of them have went to blm? they have nuke combo's. they have both heal, group heal, and regen. they have enfeebles in their nukes just like the blm does.

at some point during these changes

blm went to nuke and enfeeble with only half the elemental wheel.
whm went to nuke, mp management capabilities, heal, buff, regen, enfeebles, and debuffs.

i just wish they had made the 2 classes more even.

[Rydin]

Don't miss them at all, Tell me what is the difference between Scourage/Banish and Thunder/Fire ? besides the obvious .. nothing they both do damage and inflict status.

Granted the game is missing poison,dia,bio etc but that will no doubt be added with RDM or something in the future.

Scourge = 34%Ice/33%earth/33% water
Fire = Fire
Thunder = Thunder

In terms of elemental weaknesses on MOBs, that is actually a very drastic difference

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Astral-Umbral
This thread I started talks about something similar...

THM really could do it all at launch... (And better than anyone else)
Heal, Enfeeble, Nuke, DoT (tank??)
It needed a nerf.... no doubt
So Yoshi trimmed it down
But maybe, just maybe.. it was overdone...

Jobs were introduced to provide a specific role for each class....
But the changes and nerfs gave THM that same exclusive role... 1.18-1.20 made THM a Black mage and 1.21 gave them ancient magic.

The problem, as we have discussed at length, is my friends and I were hoping for a job tree type system. Where THM would eventually get 2 specialization choices....
But the new thaum kind of can't go anywhere but elemental nukes...

I would love to see Astral/umbral/time magic (Arcane and green magic, if you will) reappear on Arcanist.

I don't know what others would want, and I don't know what Yoshi's plan is, so I am satisfied just waiting to see...

I will say that the lore behind the mages is convoluted now...
Hopefully Yoshi will fix that...
Its awkward because technically "Black Magic" in a literal sense, is Dark/bio type magic....
But in FF history, black mages have always been elemental masters, and there has been very little Light/Dark magic to warrant an entire class

In tactics
Skyseer and Netherseer were kind of Astral and Umbral
Time mage was considered a time/space mage with Meteor, Gravity, slow and haste
Mystic was like a green mage enfeebler

I personally would have liked to see one class that has both Astral and Umbral and branches into an Astral Job and an Umbral job... I originally thought that would be Thaum but I wouldn't mind if Arcanist became that

WOw.. just found this
from launch....

[Arcanist]
- A Disciple of Magic that makes use of magic along with mechanics.
- Their guild is currently located in Limsa Lominsa.
- Their magic skill is called "Arcanima."
- Their auto attack is called "Magic Missle", which uses "arcance" magic. Damage type varies with equipped item.
- They can use "Create Distaff" to create Arcane Distaffs and use "Animate Distaff" to animate them, placing them down and activating them. Distaffs are items imbued with power by the arcanist. They can be placed down as traps, arcanima fields, and more. There is a limit number of distaffs that can be placed down per party, and they have a set duration.
- Their actions "Create Distaff" and "Animate Distaff" are similar to "Refill" as Archer or normal attacks as classes. They cost no action points, MP, or TP.
- Their weapon is a combination of a staff and mechanics.

- Their weapon deals various element damage similar to other magic users. Their primary elements are Ice, Earth, and Water, which is actually Umbral damage.

[Mystic]
- A Disciple of Magic class.
- Their skill is called "Mysticism."
- Their weapon deals various element damage similar to other magic users. Their primary elements are Fire, Wind, and Lightning, which is actually Astral damage.

Looks like they intended Mystic to be Astral and Arcanist to be Umbral
the arcanist description sounds absolutely wonky though

[Zell]

It's obvious that the abilities were removed so that another one or two mage classes could be introduced. Probably Arcanist becomes redmage. Maybe another mage class dealing with with slow/haste and time abilities.

You will see stoneskin, banish, slow, poison, gravity,... etc all in the near future.

EDIT: Darn it Rydin.. you beat me to it.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

yeah, i know the story about thm being the one doing miracles while cnj commune with elementals ecc, but face it: SE had to make a choice about jobs: they need'd a healer mage and a dd mage. While lore-wise thm would have the most fitting role, in fact they were more offensive than defensive (no, the number of nuke cnj had don't count) so they delegated blm to thm. And this is already beated to death moths ago, it's useless revive it now, when oxes are fled.

[Rydin]

It's obvious that the abilities were removed so that another one or two mage classes could be introduced. Probably Arcanist becomes redmage. Maybe another mage class dealing with with slow/haste and time abilities.

You will see stoneskin, banish, slow, poison, gravity,... etc all in the near future.

EDIT: Darn it Rydin.. you beat me to it.

hahah... and I typed a whole story....
And Red Mage is the Kordell Stewart of final fantasy (Football analogy)
Every time you see it, it's playing a different role...
Sometimes its a melee character that can use some black and some white magic....
Other times it is more mage-like... with some sword wielding skill
(i.e. a melee character with some spells vs a mage with a sword)
And other times its a debuffer/enfeebler
Red mages have even had elements of time magic....

yeah, i know the story about thm being the one doing miracles while cnj commune with elementals ecc, but face it: SE had to make a choice about jobs: they need'd a healer mage and a dd mage. While lore-wise thm would have the most fitting role, in fact they were more offensive than defensive (no, the number of nuke cnj had don't count) so they delegated blm to thm. And this is already beated to death moths ago, it's useless revive it now, when oxes are fled.

I think what people are saying is THM could have lost the heals.. and been strictly damage without using elemental spells
And then transitioned into an Astral/Time job and an Umbral/green Job....

Its just preference but I prefer less classes that are watered down and generic so we can have more jobs that are specific.....

I wouldn't mind 10 classes and 20 jobs that branch off from the 10 classes....

[Delmontyb]

My bet is that Arcanist will become a summoner job class, just from the story missions where Utringer (sp?) summons those monsters for you to fight in the story. It's a stretch, but until we know more all we can do is speculate.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

actually yoshida stated arcanist to be a trapper mage, but that was long time ago. Who know where they gone so far

[Dragon]

yeah, sorry let me explain what i meant.

you are correct whm shouldn't have been given only heals and buffs. they did need a way to defend themselves. them having a basic set of nukes to cover themselves and sleeping a mob when it's attacking them is fine.

my problem with whm though is it has both ways of recovering mp. shouldn't one of them have went to blm? they have nuke combo's. they have both heal, group heal, and regen. they have enfeebles in their nukes just like the blm does.

at some point during these changes

blm went to nuke and enfeeble with only half the elemental wheel.
whm went to nuke, mp management capabilities, heal, buff, regen, enfeebles, and debuffs.

i just wish they had made the 2 classes more even.

Back up for a moment and remember there's a difference between the WHM/BLM jobs and CNJ/THM classes.

CNJ should have received the whole elemental while (Fire/Ice/Water/Earth/Wind/Thunder) along with a drain/aspir like ability (and BLM would receive the higher-grade AMs of course) while THM could've gotten the few Light/Dark damaging spells and various healing spells that WHM would inherit (and WHM should only have inherited them). It'd allow both classes to solo as they normally should and still give the jobs the specific roles in parties they need.

[indira]

overpowered is what people hated now, they want it back >.>

always something.