About the Blessing of Light and the Echo

[primarisgoazrr]

Yo friends, I need help clarifying the difference between two, so if I have it right:

The Echo
- Let’s you see into someone/something’s past (can be controlled apparently)
- Resist primal/corrupting influence (or impose your own influence in the case of resonant)
- A Universal translator
- Some users have unique ability

The Blessing of Light
- Resist primal/corrupting influence
- An affinity toward light? (Although there’s a limit, we can absorb a good bit of light has shown in ShB)
- Be empowered by Haedelyn?

If I have the right of it there, then here’s my real question: With all the Ancients pretty much gone now will there be any new users of the Echo? I mean without Haedelyn I think the Blessing of Light is done after us. In the first Elitibus unlocked it for a lot of people in the crystarium, and as we learned in Elpis, it’s apparently something anyone can use. So is some scholar gonna unlock the secrets to learning it? Or is it still gonna be something unlocked at random? I’d love to know what you all think.

[Carin-Eri]

Well, from what I recall, Elidibus (in Shadowbringers) made reference to the Echo being 'gifted' to those who witnessed a Calamity that bore resemblance to their innate ancient memories of the Final Days.
However, that creates a problem in itself in my opinion, since it does make one wonder why the Echo apparently didn't awaken in anyone who saw (but didn't succumb to) the blasphemies, the epitome of the Final Days.

Still - we could possibly assume that it could be triggered naturally under the right circumstances.

[Cleretic]

You've basically entirely got it. I generally get a read that seeing into people's pasts is our unique Echo thing, though; Minfilia might've had it too, but Krile, Mikoto and Arenvald don't seem to do it.

It's always been pretty unclear as to why some people don't get the Echo, though; like, the Scions have been around for a lot of potential triggers, but haven't responded to any of them. My educated guess is that it only happens for souls that were once ancient souls, and some incalculable amount of people instead have souls that came into existence after that point and just wouldn't get them. If that's true, then a whole bunch of people that're gonna be born post-Endwalker will have the capacity for the Echo unlocked whenever they see something that invokes the memory of the Final Days.

As for why it didn't happen in somewhere like Thavnair, I dunno. Maybe it did, but things were too extreme at that point for anyone to bring it up? Or maybe it doesn't work if the events that invoke that are too real; like, your mind's too focused on not dying to connect to those latent soul-memories in a way that it's not if you just happen to see a starshower.

[WhiteArchmage]

I think there's an addendum to note here: the pool of people who can awaken the Echo from seeing the Starshower/Final Days Redux need to have Ancient souls who lived through the first Final Days. Since the Echo is triggered by said traumatic memory from the World Unsundered, then anyone who was not present for that event (either died at the start of it or is part of the New Life, or who had already Returned to the Star and was in the Aetherial Sea at the moment) doesn't have the memories necessary for said trigger to work.

[Cleretic]

I think there's an addendum to note here: the pool of people who can awaken the Echo from seeing the Starshower/Final Days Redux need to have Ancient souls who lived through the first Final Days. Since the Echo is triggered by said traumatic memory from the World Unsundered, then anyone who was not present for that event (either died at the start of it or is part of the New Life, or who had already Returned to the Star and was in the Aetherial Sea at the moment) doesn't have the memories necessary for said trigger to work.

While I'd certainly class this as 'probably true by all of our understanding', I do want to point out that we don't actually have any proof of this. And I doubt we ever will, because explaining this would be a trip even with that being the subject of conversation; the Echo and Ancients have kinda gone cold as a subject in the game itself.

[KageTokage]

It would be interesting if there was some further elaboration on the Echo and why some souls seem to just straight up not have the gift at all, while others only felt pangs of nostalgia and sorrow at the starshowers.

We still don't actually know where souls come from, and I've always found the seeming distinction between "normal" souls and Ancient ones to be something that could be of more import going forward given how muddy of a subject the aetherial sea/Lifestream seems to be.

[WellGramarye]

Souls come from the Aetherial Sea. They're a natural product of the world's processes, and just come into being eventually. Creation magic was unable to form them.

From Through his Eyes Side Story

As water flows to the sea and rises to the sky before raining upon the land once more, the Underworld was a fundamental part of the circle of life. And for this reason, it was regarded at once with familiarity and reverence by men, who, despite their godlike powers, could not claim dominion over it. Wise though they were, they could catch only fleeting glimpses of the realm, channel but a sliver of its power, and do naught to control its ceaseless flow.

This explains the natural cycle of souls, rising from the Aetherial Sea, and becoming new life and how the Ancients couldn't manipulate it.

. Here and there, lives that had served their purpose drifted upon the current before suddenly plunging down unto the Underworld.

Emet was staring up at the sky and could see souls in the aether currents around the area, that would then fall into the Aetherial Sea, which they called the Underworld.

Through their mastery of creation magicks, men could weave anything into existence. Anything they could imagine, they could bring forth─anything, that is, except a soul. As Hades well knew, souls spontaneously manifested within creatures that were born in accordance with the laws of nature. It was a gift from the star itself, long held to be impossible to recreate. No artificial being, no matter how subtly sculpted in the image of nature, could come to possess a soul. Such creations occupied a separate classification known as arcane entities.

This part re-enforces the previous bits.

In Tales from The Dawn, A Friendship Record we get this part :

The Final Days brought fire and ruin until Zodiark put an end to the calamity.

His devotees then resolved to sow new life─a bounty of souls to take the place of their sacrificed brethren. In time would they reap this crop, and by rendering it unto their god would the lost be returned, and the world restored to the paradise it was and ever should have been.

Zodiark as Emet put it during the Amourot dungeon could "weave the laws of nature anew," meaning it could manipulate the Aetherial Sea, and actually create souls en-masse from it. This is the "new life" that never knew the End of Days, from which most of intelligent life as we know it descends. The Sundering stopped the harvest of this life, and split all souls.

We can infer three things:
1. Those who were alive and Ancients at the time of the Sundering, became those whom have the potential for the echo.
2. Those who were created though Zodiark, are those who do not have the gift at all.
3. Those were Ancients before but were not corporeal during the Sundering, feel the nostalgia and sorrow, the loss of their civilization.

[SannaR]

Souls come from the Aetherial Sea. They're a natural product of the world's processes, and just come into being eventually. Creation magic was unable to form them.

From Through his Eyes Side Story



This explains the natural cycle of souls, rising from the Aetherial Sea, and becoming new life and how the Ancients couldn't manipulate it.



Emet was staring up at the sky and could see souls in the aether currents around the area, that would then fall into the Aetherial Sea, which they called the Underworld.



This part re-enforces the previous bits.

In Tales from The Dawn, A Friendship Record we get this part :



Zodiark as Emet put it during the Amourot dungeon could "weave the laws of nature anew," meaning it could manipulate the Aetherial Sea, and actually create souls en-masse from it. This is the "new life" that never knew the End of Days, from which most of intelligent life as we know it descends. The Sundering stopped the harvest of this life, and split all souls.

We can infer three things:
1. Those who were alive and Ancients at the time of the Sundering, became those whom have the potential for the echo.
2. Those who were created though Zodiark, are those who do not have the gift at all.
3. Those were Ancients before but were not corporeal during the Sundering, feel the nostalgia and sorrow, the loss of their civilization.

This is pretty much how I classify the difference between souls and who might get the echo. We also now have, but will never see in game what effects it could have on a soul those who died during the 2nd Final days. Those that were in the Aetherial Sea prior to the 2nd Final Days kick off. And then any new souls made after these events.

[WellGramarye]

This is pretty much how I classify the difference between souls and who might get the echo. We also now have, but will never see in game what effects it could have on a soul those who died during the 2nd Final days. Those that were in the Aetherial Sea prior to the 2nd Final Days kick off. And then any new souls made after these events.

As Yoshi-P joked, maybe in 40 years~

[LilimoLimomo]

I generally get a read that seeing into people's pasts is our unique Echo thing, though; Minfilia might've had it too, but Krile, Mikoto and Arenvald don't seem to do it.

It's probably just easy to forget that other people do it too because we do it so often; it's a great tool to get the player caught up on stories without having others explain it to us! But yeah, others do it, too. A core part of Ysayle's narrative is that she saw into Hraesvaelgr's past, and there are scenes where other Echo folks see into others' pasts: Fordola and two of the Crystarium Warriors of Light come to mind. Krile also pretends to do it in a side-story, and it's believable to those around her because it's a known thing that folks with the Echo do sometimes.