Forgive me for having to break out some formatting for this one, I hope it helps you understand this.
SHE DID!
As evidence: The final cutscene of Beneath the Surface--the Anamnesis Anyder quest, and the first time in which Venat was ever named:
The text of this is, I thought, clear as day: Venat's crew literally were trying to warn the Convocation, and were getting nowhere.Distressed Ancient One: Nay. Should we continue down this path, our fate will be the same.
I said as much to the Convocation, of course, but the stubborn fools turned a deaf ear to my warnings.
I had hoped that the defector, at least, would side with us, but I regret to report our overtures have gone unanswered.
Whither tend your thoughts, Venat? Where you lead, we will follow.
Venat:
I shall not speak ill of the Convocation─they too seek only to secure the future of our star.
Yet it is plain they will not countenance a permanent solution. That being the case, we must ask ourselves a simple question: are we prepared to pursue our chosen course, even should it mean suffering the eternal condemnation of our brethren?
If so, I see no further reason to demur.
Let us bring forth the Light that shall ever after keep the Darkness in check.
One might ask why they took so long, as this was after the second sacrifice. And the answer to that lies in the first of the cutscenes in Thou Must Live, Die, and Know--the quest after Ktisis Hyperboreia. I won't quote the entire passage, because it's rather long.
There's a lot of things being said here, but fortunately, it's all directly in the text, not the subtext.Originally Posted by Venat
1. That immediately, she wants to 'fortify defenses and plan their escape'. This is very clearly a plan of action at an early stage; she doesn't know how to do this, only that it has to happen.
2. That she can't just tell everyone, because that's only going to cause mass panic. (She's right.) As a result, she has to pick carefully for secrecy and emotional integrity if nothing else.
3. While the Convocation would normally be her go-to, she immediately rules out talking to or working with them at this point, because their standard procedure both would and already has caused problems; we'd just see a repeat of the exact same responses that led to Ktisis in the first place. This clearly changed by the time of Anamnesis, but is true at the time she said it.
4. Hermes also can't be alienated or excluded, because he's integral to protecting the planet in the first place. Venat actually didn't have material evidence of this, she doesn't know how he'll be important, just that he will be.
5. She's doing her level best, and clearly not putting reliance on the time loop situation; in fact, she's clearly willing to strand us if that's what it takes, and just hopes that it doesn't.
Therefore: yes, we can safely and confidently assume that Venat tried to help her people, and just couldn't be open about it. All evidence about this leads towards 'she tried her best, and her best wasn't enough'.
I'm going to request that if you reject any of this, you do so with actual in-game evidence, rather than just broad dismissal and denial. I'm trying to put forward my viewpoint, readings and evidence in full view and in good faith, and I hope you are, too.
Last edited by Cleretic; 08-02-2023 at 04:34 PM.
.. polarizing reception? I don't think so lol.
Just because the negative reception is the definite minority doesn't mean it isn't there.
The video honestly wasn't made with the intent of trying to sway people who are already dug in on the narrative being flawless and more validating others who are questioning their sanity because of how overwhelmingly positive the reception was despite leaving very significant reasons to potentially feel otherwise.
1. Yeah, *after* the FD happens and they already summon zodiark
2. Warn =/= help when all she did is preach without offering any solution nor compromise
So what exactly the realization of this plan? Show me in-game evidence
How do you know she’s right when they never show us the proof? All we know that not telling anyone also results in people mass panicking because they don’t know what the cause of FD and have to waste time researching blasphemies and identifying its link to aether current.
In Ktisis they’re trying to prevent meteion escaping and to question hermes since they (and WoL) don’t know what will happen. Also, what procedure causing problem, exactly?
So it’s all just her hypothesis that she alone came up with, without even knowing the full picture.
What?
Last edited by Kozh; 08-02-2023 at 06:46 PM. Reason: typo
Except you’ve already been given constant refutations towards these claims Cleretic, please don’t try to play the oblivious card here. That anamnesis dialogue you quoted doesnt specify whatsoever what they even tried to tell them. We at the veryleast know that it wasnt anything to do with Meteion as Emet Selch didnt even know what the cause of the final days was. As for Hermes being integral, Kairos exists. Pandaemonium exists. Theres ways of keeping him and using his talents without him becoming a threat. She could have approached Emet or Hyth secretly. There are dozens upon dozens of avenues she could have taken. The truth is she didnt.
The issue here as well is, all of this is revolving around what Venat THINKS. And im sorry, but there is absolutely no way the risk of her telling her people or the convocation and working in unison with them to solve the issue is in any way shape or form more of a gamble than literally placing the fate of the entire universe in the hands of a single person she had only just met. Especially if her plan revolves around the 3 unsundered ascians lol. Its common sense.
If you'd like play by play proof might i introduce you to the wonderful video that this very thread revolves around? They answer all of this and refute quite literally every single one of your points thus far with in game textual evidence, the very thing you're looking for.
This just in: Genocide is perfectly fine and if you commit it so long as you look pretty and say you're sorry it doesnt count! Totally did nothing wrong.
Last edited by KizuyaKatogami; 08-02-2023 at 05:43 PM.
Sorry, not only is 'nearly two hours' far too much time to ask for me to devote to a timestamp-less video with a clickbait-y, factually tenuous title that tells me nothing of its contents, Lyth managing to dig up at least one of the people who takes credit for the account shows me that this isn't a video made by people speaking in good faith. I'm not inclined to give that much time and attention to someone who applauded an 'improved rewrite' of the story of Endwalker that turned Venat into a serial killer and tried to create a 'good Empire' by putting their self-insert in charge of the Empire, and whose response to people arguing about that was 'diddums'. This is not someone who I can ever have confidence is making arguments in good faith, and won't give them that sort of attention.
Tehmon is right: there's absolutely nothing 'polarizing' about Venat, any more than any other character, except in this one small subset of the community that echo-chambers themselves. The only places that I've ever seen talk about Venat as 'polarizing' and not 'universally beloved as a complex and tragic character' was exactly the group of official forums posters in the group of pretty clear friends that the poster Lyth found rolled in, and a small cluster of Twitter posters that I suspect might've just been one person with a half-dozen sockpuppets. Everywhere else? Hugely popular character, right up with the more conventional fan-favorites in character polls, popular subject for cosplay (for whatever that means to you, but it's hardly a negative), really any measurement of character fondness and popularity I can think of she's up there next to Emet-Selch. I see more genuine controversy about G'raha Tia than Venat.
Last edited by Cleretic; 08-02-2023 at 06:56 PM.
Riiiight. You’re going to trust the person who routinely goes off-site to post tantrums and crucify those of us who don’t adhere to the Venat Was Right message(although peas in a pod and all that i suppose). I think the real reason is that you know the video refuted you and, like always, you refuse to believe that Venat was just overall written horribly and in the end with the way they wrote her, is a horrible disgusting person. You claim to want good faith debates and conversations yet there is a nice good faith video brought to you(there’s broken up versions of it btw) and you still refuse to watch it with some empty excuse. If someone actually wanted to debate in good faith then they’d follow their own advice. You wanted in game textual evidence that refutes your claims? Its right there. Whether you watch it or not its there. And its full of comments of people's eyes actually opening because there actually is logical proof and in game evidence to show why Venat was wrong, why she is flawed, and why in the end she is ultimately the villain of this story along with Hermes.
Last edited by KizuyaKatogami; 08-02-2023 at 07:24 PM.
Damn, this is pretty tragic if you ask me! I have listened to about 18 minutes of the video and it's very chill, the speaker has the exact cadence and intonation of cuck philosophy - very easy on the ears - and they bring up great points that have always bothered me about the Endwalker storyline in a succinct way without hyperbolizing or going for cheap outrage. You have dealt with people being emotional on this board which I understand is off-putting when you see this coming from the same people who have left such a negative impression on you, but it would be depriving yourself of a treat imo! There's clearly a lot of heart and love put into that video. It comes from a place of loving this game, not nihilistic rage or smug contrarianism.
Also it's criticizing the writing more than anything. I don't see the hatred for Venat, they rather attempt to contextualize problems with her character as born of a feeling of whiplash experienced as a result of a clash of the narrative framing of her position and the player's potential own ethical framework or something like that. I think it's appropriate to meet people who did not like the 6.0 story (like me for example, I think it sucked hard) from a point of understanding. It also doesn't matter whether something is almost universally beloved - your own feelings are still valid and it's still worth critically examining the medium.
However I agree with you that the Aveyond rewrite sucked in terms of Venat and some other stuff. I would have done things entirely differently and actually wrote Venat as a tragic character. I still loved parts of it and I appreciate when fans put so much heart into their fanfiction.
Last edited by Eisi; 08-02-2023 at 07:32 PM.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|