7.0 doomium has got to stop

[DixieBellOCE]

SNIP.

Lets break this down.

1) People are fearing that 7.0 will go down the same route that Endwalker has taken, with content releases that will never stand the test of time, and outside of the first few weeks, will be dead on arrival.

2) People are not posting because they hate the game, the Diehard fans are the people that are losing their minds because the MMO they love has been watered down to the level of a Chinese mobile game.

3) FF14 will continue on it's current path, there is no doubting that. 7.0 will release, the playerbase will grow exponentially and new servers will be added(And then left to die because nobody wants to actually be on them, other than to own a large/mod house). A few months in ~30% of the playerbase will have quit playing and the game will settle back down to the same numbers across the board, because there is zero engaging reason to log into the game throughout the downtime between major patches.

4) CBU3 certainly did create one of the best MMORPG's out there, but they also started catering that MMORPG to a Single Player audience, and the game has lost it's MMO flair and gone down the sad and lonely path of single player driven content.

The game does have major glaring issues, and the foremost one is Player Retention. They developers need to create content that lasts longer than the patch it is created for in order to keep people engaged with the game.
The same can be said for Raiding, After 10 years, it has become the same bland cycle of Raid, Gear, Unsub. There needs to be engaging content for those players to continue playing the game too.

As i have said before, When an expansion ends, all the current content gets passed down to become 'backlog' casual content for people to consume during downtime.
Endwalker is an anomaly because the backlog of content getting passed down is next to nothing. The content was designed to be done once, then go play something else.

XIV will not die (even if places like materia feel like a wasteland during the small content drops), and there is no need to worry in that regard.

[Renathras]

Putting this here in case you missed my own edit:

My point stands, you're just being more open about it than usual.

If you're going to edit a post where someone replied to it later, at least be transparent about it.

No, your point doesn't stand.

Because this isn't a positivity thread.

Your point is that positivity threads only exist in reaction to negativity ones, and you use this to try to make some arcane point about positivity not really existing somehow, and ignore how often someone making a positivity thread stand-alone are also reflected by the doomposters with a negative thread. But the point is, your argument - which is faulty to begin with (positive threads can still be entirely legitimate even if they're a "reaction" to something; your argument is like saying light cannot independently exist as an entity and only has meaning because of darkness, or reconstruction is meaningless because it's only done in response to destruction) - doesn't work when you're not dealing with a positivity thread.

THIS THREAD was mocking - OPENLY mocking - the incessant doomposting and the latest abjectly moronic example of said doomposting.

Stop being a simp for trolls, friend.

Sub is paid monthly, and after we cancel our sub we still have 14 days more to access the forum (iirc).

6.45 just dropped recently.

I'm sure the math is not hard.

The problem is, a lot of these same people have been posting for months - literally months - including when the last patch was in its final months, and the one before that, and the one before that, meaning no new content for 2-3 months at that point, multiple times...and continue the doomposting. So no, that math doesn't help the argument.

Strange how that frustration builds.

That's not really a defense for Titenmen threads, Semi.

Titenmen threads are consistently trying to get people's goats and stir controversy. And given his propensity to troll and try to get people at each other, it's not borne out of frustration at the devs but rather he's one of those men who "just want to watch the world burn". Defending that is...a choice.

I don't find it surprising at all. But if every 'positive/anti-negative' thread is going to be made purely for damage control or taking shots at other threads, then people should stop crying foul when those threads get called out for the ulterior motives behind their creation.

I wouldn't mind if you'd call out the anti-positive threads, too. You do not.

And again, THIS thread doesn't apply, since it's not a positive thread. It's note even an anti-negative thread as such. It's an anti-doomposting-hyperbole thread. I say in all these threads that constructive criticism is a good thing, and so clearly I'm not against all negativity. I'm against hyperbole, and hyperbolic doomposting in particular. It's just so trite and silly at this point. It's gone passed the point of obnoxious to the point of /popcorn and then further still to the point of somehow being obnoxious AGAIN, but even moreso.

There was no "ulterior motive" with this thread. As I made my motive crystal clear. This isn't some attempt to mask a critique of someone behind a pretend facade of positivity. This is nakedly mocking the doomsaying. If I point out from the OP that this is open mockery of the hyperbolic doomposting, and that IS my motive, there's no "ulterior" for you to try and uncover. I already revealed to you the whole truth. There's no additional "ulterior motive" here for you to sus out.

I enjoy that this forum has likes, makes it easy to see when people get ratioed.

It's not really helpful because some of the doomposters have about two dozen alts between them.

But anyway, there wouldn't be as much doomium if the game was heading in a good direction, so yknow

Honestly, by all objective measures we have, the game is heading in a good direction. It's just a direction some people dislike, and some of those people are extremely prone to hyperbole about it.

As I said, it's one thing to critique the game. Also, it's one thing to not personally LIKE the game - there are a lot of games I don't like but I can rationally see are good games, not garbage games, they just aren't my cup of tea for whatever reason. But the incessant doomposting FOR MONTHS from people insisting the game's dying when every metric we have says otherwise is just tiring.

The game isn't dying.

It may be fine if it's going a direction some people dislike, but that doesn't make it garbage nor does that make it dead or dying. The hyperbole is just stupid at this point and in opposition to logic and facts.

Lets break this down.

1) People are fearing that 7.0 will go down the same route that Endwalker has taken, with content releases that will never stand the test of time, and outside of the first few weeks, will be dead on arrival.

2) People are not posting because they hate the game, the Diehard fans are the people that are losing their minds because the MMO they love has been watered down to the level of a Chinese mobile game.

3) FF14 will continue on it's current path, there is no doubting that. 7.0 will release, the playerbase will grow exponentially and new servers will be added(And then left to die because nobody wants to actually be on them, other than to own a large/mod house). A few months in ~30% of the playerbase will have quit playing and the game will settle back down to the same numbers across the board, because there is zero engaging reason to log into the game throughout the downtime between major patches.

4) CBU3 certainly did create one of the best MMORPG's out there, but they also started catering that MMORPG to a Single Player audience, and the game has lost it's MMO flair and gone down the sad and lonely path of single player driven content.

The game does have major glaring issues, and the foremost one is Player Retention. They developers need to create content that lasts longer than the patch it is created for in order to keep people engaged with the game.
The same can be said for Raiding, After 10 years, it has become the same bland cycle of Raid, Gear, Unsub. There needs to be engaging content for those players to continue playing the game too.

As i have said before, When an expansion ends, all the current content gets passed down to become 'backlog' casual content for people to consume during downtime.
Endwalker is an anomaly because the backlog of content getting passed down is next to nothing. The content was designed to be done once, then go play something else.

XIV will not die (even if places like materia feel like a wasteland during the small content drops), and there is no need to worry in that regard.

Real quick:

1) Yes, some people are. Thing is, a lot of those people praised ShB, but ShB and EW are basically the same thing done twice in terms of overall direction.

2) SOME people, yes. But a lot of the hyperbolic doomposting ("This game is garbage", "This game is dead", "CBU3 are hacks") are NOT from people who are diehard fans or who like the game. There are two different groups of people. The most diehard fans are the ones making constructive feedback posts, not the ones that "are tired of being ignored" or the Titanmen troll brigade.

3) Expansion-on-expansion - that is, comparing now to the prior expansion at this same point (patch 5.45) using the Steam numbers (the only ones we have) shows growth. And the Steam numbers are pretty widely considered more antagonistic than the whole playerbase likely is. So even with the "worst case" numbers, the game did not "Settle back down to the same numbers across the board". It's had between a 5-30% increase, depending on which months we're looking at. The current X.45 comparison has us at ~+30% over 5.45. I'm not sure how being around a third bigger is "the same". And it's unrealistic to say that all those people are just logging in to avoid losing houses, since we know housing is too rare for a THIRD of the playerbase to be house logging and doing nothing else.

4) Yes and no. 24 mans aren't single player. Extremes aren't single player. Savages aren't single player. Ultimates aren't single player. Ultimates and Savages take up a HUGE chunk of the production budget and manhours for content played by a small amount of the playerbase. Deep Dungeons CAN be single player but generally are not. Criterion have a single player mode, but the harder modes which have rewards you can't get solo are not. Eureka and Bozja you can que up alone, but you generally have to work with other players to achieve things (and are arguably some of the most MMO-y content in the game). As I've said before, FFXIV's dearth of content is in the midcore range. But it's not in the multiplayer range. While they've made a lot of adjustments to allow a single player audience, the game is not catering to them - or not catering to them alone/exclusively, at any rate. Even most of the "single player" content like Trusts is made on top of a multi-player format - the dungeons are made for 4 players, not for 1, you can just solo them with Trusts because Trusts scale up if you're doing badly and are practically (for the most part) unkillable; but the target audience is still the roulette players, which are not playing solo, per se.

5) The game does have issues, though "major glaring" is subjective. The Devs do and have created long-term content. Not everyone likes it, but people are still playing Eureka and Bozja. People are still running Orthos. People are running Crystaline Conflict and Frontlines. Hunt Train pings go out for SB all the time, and S ranks for ARR. People are still doing Ishgard Restoration, even ARR Relics, etc. You're talking your own experience, and while your experience IS real, it's anecdote. It's true of you and players like you, but you can't project that onto the entire playerbase, or even necessarily a large portion of it. No one can do that with their own experience, because we don't know who the "average player" really is. Lots of players haven't even reached the end of the game yet and play all kinds of content aside from the MSQ like Deep Dungeons or leveling alt Jobs or only an hour or so a night, so their cycle is not "Raid, Gear, Unsub", as they don't even raid.

The biggest problem, as some commenters have said, is that MMO players (specifically raiders) are kind of like a swarm of locusts. And not in a negative way, per se. In a practical sense, they come in, they consume content rapidly (but only of the type they like, which will never be the whole game; WoW for a while was a game for only raiders and PvPers and no one else, and it cratered under that model and has had to branch out), and then are bored until the next release. This has been true for a while and isn't a Endwalker or new problem. This problem has plagued MMOs since Vanilla WoW. Since before Vanilla WoW. Back then (Everquest/FF11/Ultima Online era), the main difference was players would set their own objectives that weren't "get latest gear then raidlog". The problem is, there's NO WAY to make engaging content for them AT THE RATE THEY CONSUME IT. There's physically no way without spending Bill Gates' fortune each month to make content at that pace that will keep them engaged...and the kicker is, even if you somehow DID: Then they'd get burnout.

...so the solution is to try and give them content and recognize that when they're done consuming it, they'll unsub until the next release. There's no way ANY major MMO can release a new raid tier every 4-6 weeks for perpetuity. I'm unaware of any MMO that's ever even tried for a short time, but certainly none have managed it for an extended amount of time.

I do agree with you on one point here, though; EW doesn't have a lot of "later on grinding" content. The only thing it has at all like that is Orthos, and while that's great and all, Deep Dungeons have a far more limited audience than something like Eureka/Bozja, and because they're RNG dungeons, they tend to have a pretty samey feel to them and the progression isn't as interesting as Eureka/Bozja where you have stuff like multiple weapons, multiple armors, and some BiS pieces for those zones that can encourage farming them or associated things (Mettle, etc), and Deep Dungeons just don't quite do that, nor do they have the pick up group/drop in/out feel to them. They still have longevity - go que up for PotD floor 51-60 and you're probably going to get a que pop with minutes unless you're on really low intensity times or the new DC - but it's somehow more limited. Criterion is also a case of "do it solo to get all paths, maybe do it once at harder difficulties for the achievements, maybe farm the medium one for a few glam pieces...then done.

I suppose, in a way, everything is like that, but some things have more going for them.

Oh, and I also agree FFXIV is not going to die, so no worries on that.

[AwesomeJr44]

a college essay somehow even longer than a Jojoya essay

EDIT: He somehow made an even longer essay LMAO

I know you don't have the capacity. It's okay. /pat

Nah, I just don't bother reading essays from people that use a high word count to sound smarter than they actually are or to disguise their flawed arguments. Less is more, my guy.

(as for the chess game, I'd still win even if I was a pigeon lol)

[AwesomeJr44]

EDIT: He somehow made an even longer essay LMAO

Renathras again I’m not reading that

Turns out that if you write 137 page essays when it's very apparent you could get the same message across with a couple paragraphs, people won't bother reading what you wrote. Who woulda thunk it? It's almost like people don't want to have to go through your essay and grade it as if they were your school teacher.

Renathras,

I hardly log into the forums but I do read them.

Great read, thanks.

We have located the one reader of Renathras' novel.

[Stormpeaks]

insert giant wall of text here

[Eorzean_username]

My issue with this sort of critique is it's true of everything.

Ultimates are played by a pretty small percentage of the population and are for a future that isn't really "content" at all for any of the playerbase that doesn't want to do Ultimates - which is a lot - but still eats up resources to implement. Savage, too, though that has a good deal larger participation.

So this can be used to target and attack basically any piece of content. A while back I looked at achievements for various things, and the only thing that actually had a majority (more than 50% of characters) do was the MSQ at 80-something. Everything else, and I mean everything else was less than 50%.

OK, let's use Ultimates as the pivot-point here for the moment.

In this case I'm just sceptical that implementing 1-2 Ultimates per expansion generates anywhere near the burden of implementing and supporting Duty Support/Trusts.

Also, Ultimates politely sits off in its own little sandboxed universe that basically doesn't touch any other part of the game at all.

Duty Support/Trusts, in contrast, has resulted in the active demolition of older content, and placed clamps and constraints on all future design decisions to ensure that they're compatible with what AI the developers seem willing or capable of coughing-up for the NPCs.

Taking these factors into consideration, I can understand why players who have no interest in "solo" content, in a genre that they personally perceive as being fundamentally-rooted in its online cooperative elements, have taken a somewhat-embittered attitude towards both Duty Support/Trusts, and what DS/Trust indicates about the type of focus that the development team has now shifted to.

——————————————————

It's true that "everyone" (?) does the MSQ.

But it's also true that anyone allergic to grouping with other players could also have been equally-served by just giving them a SuperEcho buff and letting them queue solo, and not otherwise modifying the content (except for maybe some flags and tweaks to prevent fights from auto-failing during mechanics like Gaols).

[DivineP]

Renathras,

I hardly log into the forums but I do read them.

I must say that your post is the reason why I like to read the OF. Your post really hit the nail on the head with features implimented and overall speaks volumes on how SE tries to cater to alot of their players different interests.

I absolutly love the relic grinds such as Bozja for example but once I tried Island Sanctuary in this expansion I raised an eyebrow and thought the content wasn't for me this time. (I still do it weekly for the stuff though!)

I enjoy grinding content for things such as achievement points, relics etc I find it fun. Sadly EW hasn't implemented it this time but that is totally fine as I'm sure others enjoy those things more than I do.

I hope next time around they impliment relics with a exploration zone and gives us another option to achieve relics such as roulettes that awards them at a slower rate but still achievable for people who would like to not grind them all out.

Great read, thanks.

[Ivtrix]

Renathras,

I hardly log into the forums but I do read them.

I must say that your post is the reason why I like to read the OF. Your post really hit the nail on the head with features implimented and overall speaks volumes on how SE tries to cater to alot of their players different interests.

I absolutly love the relic grinds such as Bozja for example but once I tried Island Sanctuary in this expansion I raised an eyebrow and thought the content wasn't for me this time. (I still do it weekly for the stuff though!)

I enjoy grinding content for things such as achievement points, relics etc I find it fun. Sadly EW hasn't implemented it this time but that is totally fine as I'm sure others enjoy those things more than I do.

I hope next time around they impliment relics with a exploration zone and gives us another option to achieve relics such as roulettes that awards them at a slower rate but still achievable for people who would like to not grind them all out.

Great read, thanks.

Surely you read it as a comedy correct? Most of what he says is not correct.