Time to Quit

[Renathras]

I'd say the fact that - as another poster so kindly pointed out - at least 20000...

1) We have hard data proving this number?

2) So that's between 0.5% and 1% of the playerbase. What about the other 99%?

Why does a hard number matter?

Because people are making arguments it's a significant amount, or even majority, of the population. You need actual numbers to substantiate such a claim.

Do you actually mean to dispute that a lot of ppl use this game for...

I don't doubt "a lot" do. But that's irrelevant. A lot of people die from the common flu each year. In the US alone, generally around 40,000 people. Which sounds terrible. Until you realize the US has a population of around 330,000,000 (330 million) people, and that is around 0.012%, meaning we shouldn't all live in fear of this disease, even though it does kill "a lot" - 40k is "a lot" - of people.

Now suppose someone argued that most people die of the flu every year, and that if all those people were removed from the equation, it would have a huge impact on the nation. Well, then it matters how many that is relative to the whole. That is, what percentage it actually is. If one is to make sweeping statements like that, they have to be able to provide numbers, hard and trustworthy ones, and they have to support their claim of being a significant portion of the playerbase.

Even the 20,000 people - "a lot" indeed - is between half and 1% of the playerbase (assuming 1-2 million, which is a pretty solid ballpark estimate of the size of the playerbase right now). That's pretty insignificant.

...

1) Going to need some sources for those numbers.

3) 7.7% is hardly a majority, and as even you note, rough estimates.

3) 3% is also hardly a majority.

4) Define "significant". I see a lot of rough math without sources, but it still supports the notion that this is a minority of people. Around 5% of voters in 2016 voted for the Libertarian party candidate. Needless to say, 5% is not a majority.

.

Anyway, I'd continue this discussion, but I'm the only one so far who has provided sourced data and apples-to-apples analysis, and now you guys are moving the goalposts - it went from:

If those people will leave, potential success of this game will lie with the Second Life players and those who sub for few months per expansion to do MSQ.

...holding that people that currently enjoy things are these Second Life players, To:

Do you actually mean to dispute that a lot of ppl use this game for...

You can't go from so many the game relies on them to "meh, 4-10%", without ever providing sources or hard data, and be arguing in good faith.

I presented two arguments:

1) The game is not dying, or even really stagnating. At worst, it's slightly growing. At best, it's growing rather well. The Steam numbers are the most pessimistic but still show this. The other numbers like Lucky Banchos suggest even more health/growth, and,

2) The ERP scene is pretty small compared to the whole playerbase. Even the source-less napkin math holds around 7-8%, which is a far cry from a majority. I've never argued that NONE EXISTS, so don't hit me with that "You're saying there is none?!" BS bad faith goalpost move.

I'm going to bow out as I made both points, and even the attempt to counter the second just proved it was, indeed, a pretty small minority and thus likely not leading SE's development efforts or design. Anything else that's a bad faith goalpost move I'm uninterested in entertaining. I made my case, and neither point has been disproven, with even the attempts to disprove the second supporting it by accident.

Yeah I'd be interested to see how that'd go as well, including in terms of their accounts...

I'd be fine with it, personally. I think most people care more about shaders and such than lewd mods.

I burned out on Savage raiding due to P8S, but I haven't quit the game and announced it on the forums several times. All that's changed is that I'm not logging in the second I wake up, or every day, but instead playing other games, like Baldur's Gate 3 or Persona 5 Royal. I'm several weeks behind on my gearing, and I honestly couldn't care less. When the urge to no-life the game comes back, I'll do so then.

Yea, same here, I took a pass on the rest of raiding after finally clearing P8S. Instead of being super happy that my static cleared, it was more of a feeling like “thank god it’s over”. It feels like the current Savage mentality is that they are making things near ultimate hard and forgetting the fun parts. Don’t get me wrong, there are fun parts but overall it feels unnecessarily long and too hard for what it is supposed to be.

So basically the Gordias problem?