EW Relic Grind is just a streamlined version of ARR/HW Grind

[AmiableApkallu]

I mean, i can't get tomestones doing older content so i cam kind of 'forced' to fill that void in current expansion 'dead' content by their design.

You can do, or have a chance to do, older content for those tomesones via

• Level 50/60/70/80 Dungeons roulette
• Leveling roulette
• Trials roulette
• Main Scenario roulette
• Alliance Raids roulette
• Normal Raids roulette
• Mentor roulette
• Frontline roulette

My own hot take might be that SE decided that they didn't need to encourage running a specific expansion's content, so they just fell back on the familiar, all-encompassing roulettes.

[Supersnow845]

You can do, or have a chance to do, older content for those tomesones via

• Level 50/60/70/80 Dungeons roulette
• Leveling roulette
• Trials roulette
• Main Scenario roulette
• Alliance Raids roulette
• Normal Raids roulette
• Mentor roulette
• Frontline roulette

My own hot take might be that SE decided that they didn't need to encourage running a specific expansion's content, so they just fell back on the familiar, all-encompassing roulettes.

Wow I can do the same roulettes I’ve been doing since the roulettes were introduced

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

Saying “here your choice is one of the roulettes” isn’t a choice at all

[dspguy]

Wow I can do the same roulettes I’ve been doing since the roulettes were introduced

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

Saying “here your choice is one of the roulettes” isn’t a choice at all

You can get your tomes by running Hunts. It doesn't have to be a roulette.

And I really don't get that logic anyway. Instead of saying "to earn your relic you have to run Dungeon A, then Dungeon B, then Dungeon C" - now you can run any of Dungeon ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP. How exactly is that a bad thign? And on top of that, there are so many ways to earn tomes, you don't have to do roulettes at all. Let's say you never got your Starbird from The Dead Ends. You can still run that dungeon, earn tomes for the relic AND do something else.

It used to be "if you were working on your relic, that's ALL you are working on while doing it." Remember one of the later ARR steps? It had to do with running level 50 dungeons in the hopes that the final boss would drop some token that you needed. It was a random drop (not 100% like it is now). And you had to be either on the relic-earning job to get credit OR another level-capped job.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Wow I can do the same roulettes I’ve been doing since the roulettes were introduced

What if I want to earn my relic doing eureka, what about POTD, ocean fishing, PVP, gathering, crafting, beast tribes, variant dungeons, Bozja

Saying “here your choice is one of the roulettes” isn’t a choice at all

Except variant dungeons literally give Causality, meaning they directly contribute to relic progress.. It's actually what makes me laugh the most at the people saying they wanted to spam Variants for their relic - you can literally do that in the current setup. Go spend all your tomes so you start at 0, then build up 1500 off of V&C alone. bam, you get your relic grind off the content you were hoping to grind. Same with Orthos, you could spam that all day until you build up 1500. You can still make a relic grind if you so choose to do so in the current way its setup - you just have to have absolute basic self control to do it now that Square's authoritative 'you must do it this way' voice is gone.

[Supersnow845]

Except variant dungeons literally give Causality, meaning they directly contribute to relic progress.. It's actually what makes me laugh the most at the people saying they wanted to spam Variants for their relic - you can literally do that in the current setup. Go spend all your tomes so you start at 0, then build up 1500 off of V&C alone. bam, you get your relic grind off the content you were hoping to grind. Same with Orthos, you could spam that all day until you build up 1500. You can still make a relic grind if you so choose to do so in the current way its setup - you just have to have absolute basic self control to do it now that Square's authoritative 'you must do it this way' voice is gone.

So you point you one example out of 9 and that example is also probably the least efficient ways to gain causality tomestones and has no actual connection to being required for the relic, yeah real convincing argument you have there

A relic whos step asked you to go do all 12 paths of mount rokkon sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than “get tomes however you want” because the latter doesn’t encourage people to interact with variant and fill the queues, like you know what the relics are supposed to do, the idiots ilvl cheesing crystal tower or ifrit hard don’t need any more fodder

[Striker44]

So you point you one example out of 9 and that example is also probably the least efficient ways to gain causality tomestones and has no actual connection to being required for the relic, yeah real convincing argument you have there

A relic whos step asked you to go do all 12 paths of mount rokkon sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than “get tomes however you want” because the latter doesn’t encourage people to interact with variant and fill the queues, like you know what the relics are supposed to do, the idiots ilvl cheesing crystal tower or ifrit hard don’t need any more fodder

Gotta love when someone's "retort" to that argument is already answered...by the original point itself lol. I'll re-quote for amusement's sake:

You can still make a relic grind if you so choose to do so in the current way its setup - you just have to have absolute basic self control to do it now that Square's authoritative 'you must do it this way' voice is gone.

There's nothing stopping you from making a chunk of the grind doing all 12 paths of the new Variant Dungeon. By the way, none of the relic quests have ever had anything more than a completely arbitrary "connection" to a relic. In Bozja, I'm up to the step where you need 15 "Raw Emotions", which can be sensibly obtained from DR...or any random Level 70 Dungeon or HOH, neither of which have anything whatsoever to do with the relic and could have just as easily been replaced with literally any other content.

So you point you one example out of 9 and that example is also probably the least efficient ways to gain causality tomestones

This feels puerile and sad as an "argument." You seem to be completely ignoring the actual point, perhaps because it destroys your attempt at an "argument." It actually makes her point even stronger, as you're acknowledging there are a large number of ways you can effectively create your own relic grind steps. You just have those options now instead of being forced to do one or two very specific types of content over and over for each relic you want.

[Silver-Strider]

To me, the relic has always been more about making the world feel more fleshed out than it actually was.

Say what you will about the past relics, making you tirelessly run X Dungeon or do Y Fate for a drop/book completion/light farm/whatever but at least you had a reason to do content. We all complain about getting nothing but CT raids all the damn time but there's virtually no reason to do any of the other raids. However, when the Bozja relic required doing Mhach and Ivalice raids, those started showing up much more frequently in Alliance roulette. It offered actual variety. For Fates, BLU mage actually got to be used for something outside of the 1 patch per expansion that people take it out of cold storage for to see the light of day again. Same thing with running old Dungeons like AV or the Antitower. While that was only true for the Bozja relic, it was a welcome change of pace to the normal day to day of roulette spam. It was nice seeing old content with the community being there alongside one other, doing the same fates and whatnot.

Now the most the community does together is Hunt Trains and while still a nice activity from time to time, right now, it feels like it's the ONLY activity because of being the far and away most effective means of getting tombstones, other than roulettes, which means there's hardly any reason to even leave whatever city you fancy. You could park yourself at Limsa or any other city, do your roulettes and then sign off again. You'll get your relic in 3-4 days, assuming you're doing even half of the Roulettes on a Level 90 character.

Would it have killed them to at least make the other EW content relevant to the Relic in some capacity? Let me trade in Potshards from Variant Dungeons for a Meteor, or some Island Scripts, or a random drop from Eureka Orthos bags as well as the Tombstone purchase.

I wonder if the people that actually like this relic are actually even playing the game. Hell, I saw someone say the reason they like this relic is because it gives them more time to play FIFA. That's the crowd this relic is for? People that don't even play the game? That doesn't really seem like a sustainable demographic to cater to for an MMO.

Idk, I just feel like the journey to getting the relic was just as important as the relic itself and that's been lost with this Tombstone weapon.

[Nav_Fae]

Hell, I saw someone say the reason they like this relic is because it gives them more time to play FIFA. That's the crowd this relic is for? People that don't even play the game? At doesn't really seem like a sustainable demographic to cater to for an MMO.

Idk, I just feel like the journey to getting the relic was just as important as the relic itself and that's been lost with this Tombstone weapon.

I would like to touch base on this a bit more as I don't think this is even an FFXIV or MMO exclusive problem. It dawned on me a while ago that many video games seem to be adapting to this pick up, play, and move on mentality. At the risk of possibly going off topic a bit, I noticed that the concept of unlockables in video games is dwindling. The reason you might ask, "People don't have time to play video games like they used to". So new games tend to just give most of it their meat at the start of the game or make the process relatively quick. How this relates to FFXIV and the relic weapon? Well, there is just no sense of journey in any of these games anymore. I mention this because it really feels like one of those, the rabbit hole extends beyond just the scoop of this game. I don't know when it happened, I don't know why it happened. Suddenly people are way more hyper casual, have a lower attention span, and just simply do not have the time to play video games. Doing anything that's considered a "Grind" people struggle to fit into their daily lives if they aren't living on the game. It probably doesn't help that this game has it's self-convinced that glamour is the true endgame so many more people don't tend to care about these grindy parts of the game as a result. Honestly, I don't even really know what demographic they are trying to aim towards anymore. Besides new players. But yeah, the feeling of community is basically absent unless you join one of the magnitude of community discords. Which are often discussing other games or topics instead of this game.

[Supersnow845]

.

“Making your own relic step” with the least efficient way to grind tomestones isn’t content I’ll say that again, and how am I making her point stronger, I offered 9 ways I’d like to grind a relic considering the prevailing argument around this relic is “do it yourself”, she offered one of those 9 ways as a possibility despite it being so inefficient you would literally have to be forcing yourself to do it at the expense of any other route and then completely ignored the other 8

The anima relics had steps in which you had 8 different options for progressing a particular step and that pulled from all the games content, using roulette tomes as a patchwork “see you can do whatever you want” isn’t content

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

“Making your own relic step” with the least efficient way to grind tomestones isn’t content I’ll say that again, and how am I making her point stronger, I offered 9 ways I’d like to grind a relic considering the prevailing argument around this relic is “do it yourself”, she offered one of those 9 ways as a possibility despite it being so inefficient you would literally have to be forcing yourself to do it at the expense of any other route and then completely ignored the other 8

The anima relics had steps in which you had 8 different options for progressing a particular step and that pulled from all the games content, using roulette tomes as a patchwork “see you can do whatever you want” isn’t content

Isn't it though? You're just doing some repetitive task -X- amount of times, literally the exact same thing so many steps from old relics required. The only thing different from choosing to grind However many runs of a variant dungeon for an EW relic vs grinding Deluburum 15 times is Square's authoritative voice saying you're not allowed to have fun any other way on the latter and must do it his way. At the end of the day, you're still doing some sort of repetitive task -x- number of times.

I also like how you used HW relics as an example when back in their prime and I did them on content before any nerfs to each steps, several steps had farming a sole instance for poetics as the infinite easier choice compared to all others they may as well have been obsolete. Nothing came close to spamming ARF 50+ times. You could easily mirror that experience in today's relic by the exact same Variant grind I mentioned, do a single instance x amount of times for y resource. Also plenty of the HW steps only had tome farming as an option, what are you on about? (Umbrites, 5x aether oils, Archaic enchanted ink) or as an insanely more efficient option compared to how else you could get the items in question (Pneumite, unidentified items)

You gave a list of options you'd want to do besides roulettes, I told you quite easily how you could turn one of said options into a full blown relic grind if you so chose. You could also grind PVP till you have 1500 tomes since they give tomes when playing at 90. Get a relic by 100 floor clearing Eureka Orthos three-four times. You could exclusively get the tomes from helping people get their first time clears of savages in PF for the hardest relic ever obtained.

People create self-imposed challenges for themselves all the time in video games, it's nothing new. If you need Yoshi-P's absolute authoritative voice telling you to go spam Crystal tower 15 times or grind FATEs till your eyes bleed, then enjoy your roulettes. before the current step, I had 4 amazing manderville relics and have done a grand total of like, 5 roulettes since 6.3. You want a grind? go out and reach it. if you want to complain about the lack of that authoritative voice telling you "no fun allowed do it this way", have fun, I'll be in the middle of getting another relic after I finish this next Eureka Orthos solo run.

As I said before, it's why I laugh at half these complaints. Making your own self imposed challenges before you allow yourself to buy a relic is such a trivial thing to do for anyone with a slight bit of restraint that's wanting grinds. You can make the exact relic grind you want, you just don't have Square's voice telling you you can't anymore.

But I'll just go back to eating my popcorn as I browse these forums for my daily amusement.