Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[LilimoLimomo]

Without philosophy, I don't see how a story can have substance; philosophy is the backbone of any meaningful tale.

I'll agree that Endwalker could have done better in the story department, but it's misguided to suggest that it's because of the philosophical ideas being explored; at the points where the story failed, the exploration of these ideas made the journey yet worthwhile.

[Deo14]

Without philosophy, I don't see how a story can have substance; philosophy is the backbone of any meaningful tale.

I'll agree that Endwalker could have done better in the story department, but it's misguided to suggest that it's because of the philosophical ideas being explored; at the points where the story failed, the exploration of these ideas made the journey yet worthwhile.

That doesn't mean it has to be center point.

Main philosophy behind LotR is that even smallest people can have big effect on the world. Everyone knows that hobbits are weak, insignificant and unambitious, but exactly because of those qualities, One Ring has much smaller influence over them. Frodo saved Middle-Earth, Sam had the strength to help him in every way. Because of Merry's bravery, Éowyn killed Witch King (Merry had one of the daggers of the Westernese, which were specifically forged against dark magic of Angmar), Pippin caused Gandalf to die, but it also made him reincarnate as Gandalf the White, and with just Gandalf the Grey, Minas Tirith would likely fall, if the quest didn't fail much earlier. So everyone of those seemingly insignificant hobbits influenced the world. But the thing is, story barely puts this philosophy into foreground, it's more subliminal message. It's not like Gandalf keeps repeating it in every other scene.

That's where the EW fails. It tells you that this is the philosophy, and it makes sure you know it. It feels like authors are just saying "Look how cool that is!", "Do you see, do you understand the power of friendship?", "How neat is that?", "Wow, this is so deep.", "Let me show you how deep this is for the 5th time". At the same time, that philosophy is controversial. Come on, power of friendship, really? It's really hard to relate to such a weird concept, which works only in anime. It never happened to me that when I was with friends, I heard sound of LB bar filling. When it comes to LotR's philosophy, I can see that, I can understand it, and I think it is relatable, good message. While EW is just lame power of anime, friendship and hope, and it acts like it's something deep.

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

Also majority of gamers are lonesome creatures and the whole "Power of Friendship" philosophy being shoved down your gullet ends up being an eye roller after the umpteen time they had to talk about it.

Funny that a game that is turning into a solo player focused Second Life: A Realm Reborn game preaches about friends when most players play this game solo

[Kazhar]

Without philosophy, I don't see how a story can have substance; philosophy is the backbone of any meaningful tale.

This isn't about a story without philosophy, but a story without philosophizing.
A story can explore philosophical themes without having their characters stop every 5 minutes to preach everyone about their views.
Especially since it's often a clutch to hide the fact that it's very shallow. (see: all the very long speeches on suffering to random strawmen literally created to receive them, instead of having the characters actually experience it through a story with real stakes)

[Soge01]

Meh, I tend to like the philosophy behind each expansion. Endwalker felt a bit ham fisted, but I blame that on Endwaller seemingly being two expansions crammed into one. So some of what Endwalker story's tries to express doesn't completely through right. :/

I just hope the dev team learns from the mistakes they made in Endwalker and try not to rush things. Let the story tell what it wants at its own pace.

[fulminating]

It's not necessarily that it explored philosophical ideas, but how dissonant and jarring the conclusions they endorsed were compared with earlier.

Even disregarding the genocide stuff, the zenos/meteion "life is meaningless" thread felt mismanaged. I got the impression that they were meant to serve as two responses to the same question with zenos's outlook being healthier. Living in the moment/life has the meaning you assign to it vs moping about and making everyone glum. Or the scions falling over themselves to self-"sacrifice" for what seemed to be a bit of a dissonant cause.

The treatment of the ancients also doesn't sit particularly well with prior content, and especially with how heavy handedly the answers lyrics were used - look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after being very contrasted with the near eradication of their remaining culture and population.

[Kozh]

Can you prove what I have and have not see? Legit question btw. I even said I've seen opinions, but not sources with irrefutable evidence. Has nothing to do with it being against what I think. I'll gladly go back if I'm 100% wrong about something. I've done it before.

The hell? How should I know that you see/not see? You could've read a post and not reply to that, and it would be considered as "see". I do know you have replied to conversations where people from both side post or cite their sources. If you join that conversation without reading the previous replies, that's on you.

They don't intend to put her down? According to who? I saw no one pulling punches. They understood what they had to do and they did it.

Alisae was literally surprised and went "No " when she saw hydaelyn dying. They're not pulling punches because it's a test, and she's not pulling punches either. Their purpose going into aetherial sea was to get help from hydaelyn, not putting her down.

And it quite literally IS nuance because they accepted her reasoning for doing what she did even though normally they wouldn't. The reasoning itself is what makes it acceptable to them. It isn't just black n white.

It's character inconsistency, not nuance. Did they ever show disagreement towards Venat, even if indirectly? No. They don't even discuss it except when ysthola clarified Venat MO.

[sagacious]

The story is great but your opinion isn't

[BRVV]

The story is great but your opinion isn't

Translation: "Don't insult my favorite game!!! REEEEEE!!!"


Gonna be real tough if they go for a story about the US and it's beginnings and try to have us be the unsung good guys. Unless we are the sailors at first and then join the Wala... somethings like in Pocahontas / Avatar.

[Hurlstone]

Also majority of gamers are lonesome creatures and the whole "Power of Friendship" philosophy being shoved down your gullet ends up being an eye roller after the umpteen time they had to talk about it.

I can understand people being annoyed about repetition, I just think its a shame when it and other things like ‘peace and not seeking revenge’ are automatically seen as a childish concept.

Funny that a game that is turning into a solo player focused Second Life: A Realm Reborn game preaches about friends when most players play this game solo

I mean... just because we like solo play does not mean we do not have friends! They just... go to another MMO then this one. You would not know them... <_<