Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[FTP]

YES, it does. It means exactly that.

It does not.

The fact people buy a product means nothing more than that they believe it to be worth the price, or more specifically that they believe the product all put together will be worth more to them than the sum of its cost. That's all.

[Fayt1203]

Streamers do stuff only for money. This news for you?

what really i thought they were doing it for the fun and passion

[Theodric]

If the game is truly so successful, then one wonders why even the slightest bit of criticism on a forum such as this known to be obscure and receiving so little attention from the development team and community representatives is policed so actively for 'wrong think'.

Evidence can readily be found to show that posters critical of the game are well aware that this place is neglected. I, myself, have pointed it out many times in the past as well as such as in the following thread:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...epresentatives

I think it's clear that to certain posters the problem is not that critical feedback is being left here but rather that there's any critical feedback whatsoever. It doesn't matter how civil or how valid the feedback in question actually is, criticising the game in any way is treated as a grave sin by those who have made the same such a core part of their personality and lives.

This isn't anything new. I've seen it happen for years, now. There's even been prominent cases of streamers receiving death threats for reacting the 'wrong way' to major moments in the story, or for simply criticising the game.

Which makes it all the more deceptive when streamers are pushed as representative of the game doing so well and being so successful.

[Nav_Fae]

I constantly hear about Venat stans but I never see them. I only see people mentioning Genocidalyn more often than not.

[Vyrerus]

Mate, you SERIOUSLY need a lesson

Since you're on the first slope of the bell curve, I'll give you a lesson instead.

Just because an IP, art piece, sports team, recipe, game, or whatever other product you care to think of is popular, doesn't mean it's a high quality variety of whatever it may happen to be.

With mass appeal comes reductions in quality. You can have a game, but it can't be too challenging. It can't be too edgy. It can't be too linear. It can't be too open. It can't be too mature. It can't be too serious. It can't be too comical. It can't be too time intensive. It can't be too long. It can't be too short. It can't be too hot. It can't be too cold. It has to be, "Just Right."

In essence, this means that something with mass appeal dilutes itself so that it has something for everyone, but those somethings never cross a certain threshold. They may even be sanded down further to appeal to yet more people, if it's a live service product like FFXIV.

In addition to that, there are tried and true psychological tropes/mechanisms/concepts that grab people's attention, that many, many people flock towards.

Beauty - People love seeing beautiful people, whether they're real or not. Beauty lends itself a bonus to charisma, causing hearts and minds to yield beyond any intellectual appeal.

Comedy - Whether produced by the people themselves or the situations they're in, laughter goes a long way. Though unlike beauty, it has a slight limitation in that it can't be stage present 100% of the time.

Tragedy - Sadness and sorrowful events have broad appeal, because life is harsh, and it's extremely relatable and can impart lessons and morals.

Accessibility - The easier something is for people to get into/do/view/have, the more likely more people are going to like it, mainly because they'll actually be able to form a real opinion about it, and it will become part of their head space. Things that are hard to access have more people write them off, because no one likes rejection, even if it was caused by their own faults and foibles.

Drama - Contrast and conflict between characters, or in most cases, between the audience's real lived experiences and the fantasy played out on stage.

Novelty - Freshness or newness/unique aspects. It doesn't have to be completely new, it can just be new to the medium. People are attracted to fresh ideas, sights, sounds, people, and experiences. Strongest when it brings innovation. This is ultimately the most powerful factor when it does.

There are other concepts, but these are the main ones. You don't even have to blend these mechanisms together to achieve mass appeal. Very beautiful people draw crowds by themselves. Very funny comedians draw crowds by themselves. Tragedies draw eyes like almost nothing else. Anything actually brand new gets people's attention in a big way, especially if it's innovative.

Yet, none of these things alone produce or mark quality (at least qualities other than what they are).

Any product intended for mass appeal will try to blend more of these in, to make up for what it lacks, or take advantage of current events to associate the product with something else that drew appeal.

And the thing about popular appeal is that it doesn't last forever. Eyes grow tired of seeing the same beautiful faces. The beautiful faces become less beautiful over time, beside the newer, fresher ones. Old systems get out done. New tragedies turn heads. New jokes take ears.

Entirely new people enter the world, and entirely new things become popular. And it has no bearing on the quality of the old, for their time and place. This is why nostalgic callbacks work!

Something has truly high quality when the experience it provides endures, proving exceptional in the face of all other similar experiences.

For the majority of people, the threshold for having a quality experience is low. All it takes is a heaping helping of one of the concepts mentioned above. They generally override perception of shortcomings, even if the audience is capable of perceiving said shortcomings. This is why base things like Reality TV are popular. They have subjects with quality in them, but overall are not high quality.

This allows products, content, business etc. to make up for quality with quantity. They get to inject very small amounts of novelty with that quantity. FFXIV does the same thing with its patch cycles. Every product intended for repetition does.

It's less that I know what's best for everyone, and more that I know that most people are stupid, self-centered, and given to pleasure seeking. Therefore, most people who play FFXIV are stupid, self-centered, and given to pleasure seeking. It's less a condemnation of them, and more an observation. Just as most people aren't physically fit.

Most people aren't geniuses. Most people aren't innovators. Most people aren't creators. Most people aren't Olympians. Most people, in fact, do not know what is good nor do what is good for them. Even under professional/expert direction. Pleasure and comfort come first for like 90% of people, and I'm probably being generous to paint it that low.

The point, in my windbag, is again, that just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. Pleasing, certainly. High quality? Right? Righteous? Morally upstanding? No. These are all separate from popularity.


If what you were asserting were the truth, then there wouldn't be, "hidden gems." Across multiple mediums and eras.

[Theodric]

I find it odd that you guys have issues with Venat fans yet not with Emet fans who are/were the exact same way. Neither Emet or Venat are heros and both have contributed a ton to the state of the world. Biggest difference here is Venats resulted in us having a chance and thriving on, Emets did/would not have. We were already shown where the strive for perfection would've taken the Ancients (last area of Dead Ends) and so a choice was made by her. Like it or not it did pay off hence why we (the WoL) are here. I just appreciate that the game let's us question these things from her, Hermes and Emet.

What's odd about it? Other than the fact that no matter how many times sources are provided to you showing that, no, the Ancients were not actually doomed outright and were instead sabotaged and slaughtered purposefully by Venat. The Sundered exist at the expense of the Ancients through the genocide and racial replacement of the former, thus do the Ancients not have any obligation to bend over and allow themselves to be wiped out.

There's also no 'we'. You are not your character. I am not my character. What's being discussed isn't what benefits the protagonists but rather the context of what happened within the overall story.

You keep saying that neither Emet or Venat are heroes or similar comments but then double down on insisting that between them, Venat is 'correct'. That isn't really how it works.

[IkaraGreydancer]

What's odd about it? Other than the fact that no matter how many times sources are provided to you showing that, no, the Ancients were not actually doomed outright and were instead sabotaged and slaughtered purposefully by Venat. The Sundered exist at the expense of the Ancients through the genocide and racial replacement of the former, thus do the Ancients not have any obligation to bend over and allow themselves to be wiped out.

There's also no 'we'. You are not your character. I am not my character. What's being discussed isn't what benefits the protagonists but rather the context of what happened within the overall story.

You keep saying that neither Emet or Venat are heroes or similar comments but then double down on insisting that between them, Venat is 'correct'. That isn't really how it works.

I've seen zero of these so called sources. I've seen you say this 100 times but never show this.

Also are we REALLY cherry picking words or are you playing? It's a word as we play said character...come on dude. Also where did I say only protagonists? Her choice made it possible for every sundered to thrive.

And come on. I expect you to think more logically than this...I didn't say Venat was "correct". I said her choices gave us a chance, Emets did not. I can still hold that view and not call either heros...let's not. That IS how that works. If you disagree that's your problem.

[Theodric]

I've seen zero of these so called sources. I've seen you say this 100 times but never show this.

Then I'm honestly not certain why you keep weighing in on story related debates, since sources are posted rather frequently within them...specifically to counter the narrative that there was 'no choice' and that the genocide of the Ancients 'had to happen'.

It's also rather strange that you're somehow able to references things I and others supposedly stated months ago but can't recall sources being posted a few days ago.

You're free to believe what you will, nobody is stating otherwise. Yet nobody is obligated to accept Venat's paper thin reasoning at face value or consider it to be good writing - especially when it goes against everything the protagonists in this game claim to stand for.

[Lauront]

Emets did not.

He didn't even know what the true cause was because she withheld that info from him. So the "her choices gave us a chance" comment is really not even a fair comparison here since he cannot be blamed for lacking that knowledge. Shame she didn't give her own people a chance.

Ultimately, using the fate of the final Dead End - a world made of strawmen if there ever were one - is basically depriving them of a chance to deal with this matter in the full knowledge of what had happened, over ifs, buts and maybes as to what may happen to her people eventually and, tbh, will eventually happen to the sundered. Why? Any one of the dead ends in the reports could happen to them. There is fundamentally nothing that exempts them from any of them.

If you disagree? That's your problem.

[Carin-Eri]

Shamed? I watched these people and I saw no shame. Asmongold lied about the community then used people being made about that to point at the community to make them look bad. Let's not get the story wrong here. Asmon joined XIV for hypetrain money, that's it. Same for Rich. Is that to say there aren't bad apples? No. But to claim most of the community is insane is just off.

I tend to think that way too much 'value' is placed on Streamer opinions.