complete Dark Knight overhaul suggestion (with link)

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Im at work so I can't type out all my thoughts, but some short points:

+ I like the revision of most resource systems, definitely feels more like the DRK I somewhat used to play.
+ Utilizing Shadowskin as an early game TBN is a neat idea.

? Having your AOE combo cost MP on top of having Dark Arts effects is highly questionable
? Blood Price is basically early ShB Bloodweapon and it also feels extremely samey to your version of BWeapon.
? I am not a fan of replacing one resource system for another and I am doubly not a fan of losing Bloodspiller, the OG big GCD hitter from Dark Knight
Edge and Flood aren't really animations needing to go either.

- Really dislike the Dark Mind level change to be outside of Heavensward content let alone ARR. While not as relevant for many, DMind is fairly integral for mitigation planning for those doing synced Coils and Alexander Savages. Shadowskin nowhere near enough makes up for that, especially when compared to PLD and GNB.
- Merging Oblation with Dark Mind is an extremely awful move. It massively takes away the flexibility that current Oblation offers. There are many moments you dont want Oblation's extra 10% with Dark Mind so you can hold them for different attacks.
- a much better solution is to give Dark Mind the Addle treatment, either "10% magic mit + 10% generic mit" which results in a net 19% magic mitigation OR "20% magic mit, 10% physical mit".

Please stop asking for Oblation to be merged with other skills, the flexibility is what makes it great as a separate button.

[Zairava]

Im at work so I can't type out all my thoughts, but some short points:

+ I like the revision of most resource systems, definitely feels more like the DRK I somewhat used to play.
+ Utilizing Shadowskin as an early game TBN is a neat idea.

? Having your AOE combo cost MP on top of having Dark Arts effects is highly questionable
? Blood Price is basically early ShB Bloodweapon and it also feels extremely samey to your version of BWeapon.
? I am not a fan of replacing one resource system for another and I am doubly not a fan of losing Bloodspiller, the OG big GCD hitter from Dark Knight
Edge and Flood aren't really animations needing to go either.

- Really dislike the Dark Mind level change to be outside of Heavensward content let alone ARR. While not as relevant for many, DMind is fairly integral for mitigation planning for those doing synced Coils and Alexander Savages. Shadowskin nowhere near enough makes up for that, especially when compared to PLD and GNB.
- Merging Oblation with Dark Mind is an extremely awful move. It massively takes away the flexibility that current Oblation offers. There are many moments you dont want Oblation's extra 10% with Dark Mind so you can hold them for different attacks.
- a much better solution is to give Dark Mind the Addle treatment, either "10% magic mit + 10% generic mit" which results in a net 19% magic mitigation OR "20% magic mit, 10% physical mit".

Please stop asking for Oblation to be merged with other skills, the flexibility is what makes it great as a separate button.

Great points overall

For shifting dark mind later, I felt like it might've been better to do so since I put Shadowskin as a low level TBN, since I didn't want our defense to be too powerful. It wasn't something I really wanted to do, so I'll probably just revert it.

I'm pretty likely to remove the mp cost on the aoe combo, my original vision for it was to have mp management at the lowest level possible, but in hindsight it doesn't matter since DRK starts at level 30, and I brought Dark Arts at lvl 35 anyway.

Looking back at Blood Price...yeah that really is samey huh...

As for the resource system, if we were to keep the Blood Gauge, I have some ideas in mind I'd like to try out as I'm revising.

I'll work on some revisions and be back later with them, it'll be a seperate doc so I can return to the original if ever needed.

[Sazuzaki]

? I am not a fan of replacing one resource system for another and I am doubly not a fan of losing Bloodspiller, the OG big GCD hitter from Dark Knight

Yeah I was thinking that too. It'd be better if Darkside changed Souleater/or Power Slash to Bloodspiller. It would be a pretty dope skill to end a combo on.

[Zairava]

I'm still currently working out what exactly I'm going to do with the Blood Gauge and how. Ended up sleeping earlier since I work nightshift.

I wish the DRK invul wasnt so bad, like really even after they changed it, its still trash.

Things that can happen:
#You fall down to 1 HP, you immediately use an attack > it doesn't register that you already have the buff because of server ticks > you get no healing from the first attack> you die because you cant fullheal yourself in time
#You Fall down to 1 HP > there is no enemy to attack or you get stunned > it runs out and you die
#You use it in a dungeon but the healer keeps you barely alive and it doesnt trigger > it runs out > you die because the healer fails to heal you and you never got the self heal effect

Something came to my mind while I was brainstorming what could be possibly done about blood price... If you recall some discussion on the Dark Knight Megathread a while back we discussed a Blood Price revamp that could pool HP as your taking damage and heal you for a portion based on the amount of damage you took.

What I ended up coming up with earlier was something that is far, far too powerful for just a standard CD, however, borderline if not invulnerability, so I'll just take it to 100 here.

What if Living Dead functioned like this:

Creates a barrier around self totaling to 100% of your maximum HP. If this shield is completely absorbed, you will gain the status Undead Rebirth
-Living Dead Duration: 10s
Undead Rebirth Effect: You are healed for 100% of incoming damage
-Undead Rebirth Duration: 10s
*Shadowskin/The Blackest Night has shield priority as usual to prevent confliction here

[Zairava]

Alright I believe I've reached a result with the Blood Gauge version after some heavy thinking. Here's the link, I will also update the OP with this after posting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

The notable changes:

• Edge and Flood of Shadow are both introduced at lvl 74 and are our Blood Gauge spenders. I did not include Edge and Flood of Shadow here. They both cost 50 Gauge.
• Scourge is now a GCD DoT we maintain, near identitical to the HW version except it has a higher base potency and longer duration.
• The Dark Arts combo bonus from Power Slash, Stalwart Soul and Bloodspiller (formerly the placement of Scourge), now increases the Blood Gauge by 25, to keep it in line with 2 combos equaling 1 use of my Dark Descent version.
• Bloodspiller now is the upgrade for Souleater and Quietus is now the upgrade for Unleash. Both while Darkside is active, of course.
• Dark Mind has been reverted back to it's original form. You get it at lvl 48 now, since Shadowskin remains as a lvl 45 unlock.
• Blood Price is removed and Sole Survivor is now back. Sole Survivor functions near identical to how it did in latter Stormblood. The only difference is it solely is HP recovery, and not HP and MP recovery.
• Salt and Darkness will now spread Scourge to all enemies inside Salted Earth

The reason I didn't include Edge and Flood of Darkness is because there simply isn't room for them at a low level, and I don't want to introduce the Blood Gauge too early because that would mean pushing other abilities back, making the leveling experience worse.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Alright I believe I've reached a result with the Blood Gauge version after some heavy thinking. Here's the link, I will also update the OP with this after posting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

The notable changes:

• Edge and Flood of Shadow are both introduced at lvl 74 and are our Blood Gauge spenders. I did not include Edge and Flood of Shadow here. They both cost 50 Gauge.
• Scourge is now a GCD DoT we maintain, near identitical to the HW version except it has a higher base potency and longer duration.
• The Dark Arts combo bonus from Power Slash, Stalwart Soul and Bloodspiller (formerly the placement of Scourge), now increases the Blood Gauge by 25, to keep it in line with 2 combos equaling 1 use of my Dark Descent version.
• Bloodspiller now is the upgrade for Souleater and Quietus is now the upgrade for Unleash. Both while Darkside is active, of course.
• Dark Mind has been reverted back to it's original form. You get it at lvl 48 now, since Shadowskin remains as a lvl 45 unlock.
• Blood Price is removed and Sole Survivor is now back. Sole Survivor functions near identical to how it did in latter Stormblood. The only difference is it solely is HP recovery, and not HP and MP recovery.
• Salt and Darkness will now spread Scourge to all enemies inside Salted Earth

The reason I didn't include Edge and Flood of Darkness is because there simply isn't room for them at a low level, and I don't want to introduce the Blood Gauge too early because that would mean pushing other abilities back, making the leveling experience worse.

Overall like various of the revisions, especially the Scourge-spread, that one is sexy. However other points of criticism I'd like to forward - as before, no hard feelings, just pointing out glaring issues in the design.

• Dark Arts potency gain on Single Target is inconsistent. If you enhance Bloodspiller its +150p, if you use it on Powerslash its +90 only.
• Disregarding that Powerslash can be DA'ed, it generates +25 Blood vs Souleater generating 0 Blood. Given your spammable Blood spender is Edge of Shadow on OGCD, that means Powerslash is actually worth 360p + (360/2), so 540p vs Souleater's measly 410p. This means you'd never use Souleater combo.
• The way Dark Arts interacts with Bloodspiller means your Darkside Window is extremely combo line-up reliant. The amount of value your Bloodspiller brings is off the fucking charts. +150p per Dark Arts and the +180p for gaining half an Edge's worth of Blood means executing that skill is worth a ludicrous amount of damage. It is so strong you want to go into Darkside with Souleater Ready so you can do a 8-gcd line up and around 75 blood gauge of:
  >> DArts + BWeapon > Syphon > DSide > Spiller > Delirium + Edge > Spinning > Shadowbringer > Syphon > DArts > Spiller > Edge > Spinning > Dark Arts > Syphon > Spiller > Edge > another full DA Bloodspiller combo + 1x Edge > Scourge*
  * move Scourge anywhere in that window to adjust for the previous DoT alignment.
  ** combo is not accounting for non-aligning CDs like Carve, Drain and Salted.
  
  This is very napkin-y, but essentially you want to begin and end the entirety of Darkside with Bloodspiller. I get the novelty of Darkside, but holy cow is the gain of Bloodspiller insane on top of the damage boost, but the power feels restrictive.
• Shadowbringer/Dark Passenger at 30s means you will hold the skill rather than use it on cooldown, otherwise you will drift it out of Darkside and lose a Shadowbringer use, so anywhere from 30s to 40s makes no difference. I recommend 35s so there is some leeway for drifting, otherwise stick to 40s.
• The lack of MP recovery on Sole Survivor makes the 120s CD no longer justified given it has no reset mechanic for killing enemies either (see PvP Sole Survivor from Plunge). It is a rather lacking delayed Equilibrium - unironically would be more relevant if DRK gets Bloodbath from the melees instead at 120s CD.
• Dark Mind is fine at 60s, no need to make it 40s according to the google Doc.

I don't mind high potencies as they can always be scaled up or down, but the relative potencies between skills need to be kept in check.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

As for this abomination I wish I didn't need to see again from that thread...

What if Living Dead functioned like this:

Creates a barrier around self totaling to 100% of your maximum HP. If this shield is completely absorbed, you will gain the status Undead Rebirth
-Living Dead Duration: 10s
Undead Rebirth Effect: You are healed for 100% of incoming damage
-Undead Rebirth Duration: 10s
*Shadowskin/The Blackest Night has shield priority as usual to prevent confliction here

Even compared to the old version of Living Dead, this would be so much worse. Without an actual "Cannot be dropped below 1 HP for the duration of this effect" clause it basically is no longer an invuln and basically turns DRK into a tank that gets banned from any fight that has mechanics that would be infinitely more useful to deal with by having two tanks with actual invulns.

The only way this is even remotely acceptable is if all four tanks lose their invuln, like Hallowed Ground being just -90% or -95% rather than full invuln, similar with Bolide but it also generates like half of HP spent as a shield or something.

Arohk's issue of being unable to heal themselves in time outside of AOE situations is also more of an issue of people insisting on Crit + Direct Hit builds or generally having insufficient Det/Ten. A Crit + Det DRK build can get you out of Walking Dead in 2-3 GCDs, depending if you crit or not.

[Absurdity]

As for this abomination I wish I didn't need to see again from that thread...

Even compared to the old version of Living Dead, this would be so much worse. Without an actual "Cannot be dropped below 1 HP for the duration of this effect" clause it basically is no longer an invuln and basically turns DRK into a tank that gets banned from any fight that has mechanics that would be infinitely more useful to deal with by having two tanks with actual invulns.

That's probably more an oversight. I'm going to assume Living Dead still keeps it's "Attacks can't reduce your HP below 1" restriction, anything else would just make it useless as an invuln.

I do however still see an issue with it, namely that it is only good on multi-hit busters depending on how Undead Rebirth's trigger functions.
From how it is described it would only activate after the single-hit buster and do basically nothing but give you a bit of healing from following auto attacks.

[Zairava]

snipped for length

I appreciate the feedback on this

I thought for quite a while on how to make Souleater worth using over Power Slash, including ramping up the mp cost on DA to 3k and only providing 20 gauge, but considering how often we'd actually recover MP, I couldn't think of any other methods other than just making DA cost a ridiculous amount of mp (4-5k) and making Souleater the combo ender for mp recovery. I also thought of bumping up Souleater's potency but it would need to be pretty high to compensate. So I ended up removing Souleater and replacing it with Power Slash in this case, moving the cure potency from Souleater onto Power Slash. So instead of having a separate ender for it, you would just use Power Slash without DA when you need to recover MP. If the idea of the former (Souleater being an mp recovery combo ender) idea works better I could edit it back in as such.

Dark Mind's CD being 40s instead of 60s was actually something I missed while editing that revisement, thanks for pointing that out.

I nerfed Bloodspiller substantially. It's potency without Dark Arts is 500 and with DA is 550, it also no longer has gauge generation. Power Slash is also 400 without DA and 450 with DA. I bumped Stalwart Soul's base potency to 150, kept it at 200 with DA. This makes the potency boost from DA 50 across the board

I revised Sole Survivor, it basically functions as Blood Weapon but with HP AND MP recovery but only from a single target as the source and without the haste. It remains on a 120s CD, 15s duration, and the cooldown is now refreshed upon the enemy that has Another Victim applied being KO'd.

Dark Passenger/Shadowbringer is now on a 35s CD for the drifting leeway

That's probably more an oversight. I'm going to assume Living Dead still keeps it's "Attacks can't reduce your HP below 1" restriction, anything else would just make it useless as an invuln.

I do however still see an issue with it, namely that it is only good on multi-hit busters depending on how Undead Rebirth's trigger functions.
From how it is described it would only activate after the single-hit buster and do basically nothing but give you a bit of healing from following auto attacks.

Yeah, it was an oversight.

In hindsight I regret posting the LD idea, because not only is it bad but I quite frankly would like to keep the version we have now.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

snip

You generally got the right idea, but your relative potencies are a bit off within the kit. You may also have taken the Bloodspiller criticism a bit too far. Some other changes like Sole Survivor are solid though.

Do you mind if I give you my variant of the DRK overhaul, using the systems you provided since the start of the thread? I think I can polish this up where things feel neither overbearingly powerful nor lacking impact.