Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[Theodric]

I had forgotten this but I just went through story on an alt and there was a point where Alphinaud went and asked Riol and Alianne why they stayed with the Scions after the Crystal Braves disbanded. And the simple answer they gave was that they recognized that the Scions were all united in a common cause.

Also, when you watch the core group we interact with, there's an unspoken agreement to be open to input and allow people to speak. They debate different perspectives or paths to take and each gives their viewpoint in a non-judgmental atmosphere. You're not going to see a lot of direct conflict in that sort of environment and it's not unrealistic because that's how effective teams work in the real world.

They dress it up very nicely but there's rarely any serious attempt to truly see where the 'other side' are coming from. More often than not the story will treat anyone with different viewpoints or opinions as in the wrong or in need of being humbled or humiliated - often with some silly strawman being conjured up in the process. Even in cases where the vote goes the 'wrong way' initially, the Scions will insist on doubling down and trying to force through the 'correct' result. Either through actual force or deception.

As for 'effective teams'. I'd argue otherwise. I'd say that a group of individuals from different backgrounds and belief systems would genuinely be more capable of understanding where different people are coming from as opposed to those who push out anyone the moment there's even the slightest meaningful difference.

Let's also not forget that it wasn't until recently that the typical stance embraced by society at large could be summed up as 'live and let live'. Ultimately I don't think the game does a good job at accounting for different tastes, personal beliefs, cultural differences and personality differences amongst the playerbase.

[Hurlstone]

To be honest, I'm one of those who doesn't want to know anything more about Azem. I think, in some cases (such as this one), it's better left as a bit of a mystery.

Hmmm, I more or less agree. think the way Azem has be set now is a good place to stop or take a break, at least. We have the in-game explanation for summoning folk now, and we know that our character was connected to the Ancients in a special way. No need for any more info outside of decoration or head-canon and now EW is wrapped up, I would rather we move onto more newer things.

The only reason I think we may learn more about them is perhaps if we get a deep dive into Ancient culture and lore, which I doubt we will anytime soon in-game. I suppose they could decide that Azem was busy dealing with 7.0+ threat during the time of the Sundering. That could be interesting thinking about it, but unnecessary.

Precisely. If the intention is to make Venat's actions morally ambiguous, then some different reactions from the Scions would be very welcome. We can have Thancred just wondering out loud that he doesn't know what to feel about Venat's actions as you suggested.

Yeah, I feel if anyone would speak out it would be Thancred, given his connection to Minfilia and what she sacrificed to help Hydaelyn, and as Kazhar said the idea of abandoning Ryne and her Shard. Would havge made for a very interesting scene, even if he ended up relenting.

[Heroman3003]

I think the only right way to develop Azem would be to ask our character random inconsequential question (like food or recreation preference) and then randomly drop a fact like "oh, Azem loves [same thing you picked] thing by the way". Although with shifting away from Ancients, I doubt we'll get any of that.

[AwesomeJr44]

More often than not the story will treat anyone with different viewpoints or opinions as in the wrong or in need of being humbled or humiliated - often with some silly strawman being conjured up in the process.

This right here is a major issue I have with the game's storytelling in recent years. There are genuinely interesting places in this game's universe with interesting people with interesting points of view that differ from the scions' in major ways. But the story always treats us as the 'correct' point of view, and if someone disagrees with us, they're typically portrayed as the bad guy and/or outright wrong, arrogant, stupid, etc for thinking the way they do.

[Vyrerus]

They debate

Nah. Not the Scions. I can't even remember the last time the Scions had a minor disagreement, let alone a debate. Plenty of disagreements and debates with world leaders, not so much from within.

Heck, the only thing that comes to mind is when Alphinaud is at first trying to get someone to roger up to be the new antecedent, but everyone settles on doing their "own" thing, which just winds up going right back to working together as a whole group anyway.

Also I'd say that effective teams in the real world have leadership who make executive decisions for them, with each tendril of the team often not agreeing wholesale with said leadership's moves, and often having to disregard or ignore certain commands or mandates for practical considerations the leader doesn't often deal with directly. The Scions are less a team of people, and more a pseudo hivemind of mouthpieces. They want for not knowing what to do. Like, any situation that comes along that, "stumps" them is either something that results in an outcome immediately that they didn't get to exercise control over, or it's the next major plot point, and they just have to wait for the WoL to present the keyword or solution that gives them their, "eureka" moment, leaving me to wonder how they ever actually get stumped when they have all the answers.

[Eorzean_username]

Heck, the only thing that comes to mind is when Alphinaud is at first trying to get someone to roger up to be the new antecedent, but everyone settles on doing their "own" thing, which just winds up going right back to working together as a whole group anyway.

For about 4.5 seconds we had hints of actual tension between Thancred and Y'shtola over his delusional hopes of turning Ryne into Minfilia 2 in order to "undo" his own guilt about past events at the cost of someone else's childhood/life.

However, this was waved-away almost instantly, and then we went off to run around a temple with rabbit amazons (which was awesome, don't get me wrong).

Then it got briefly lampshaded when Y'shtola outright says, "Yeah, I'm not going with you to Amh Araeng, because I'll probably say something mean to Thancred along the way. Good luck out there."

And then it just resolved itself, through Thancred's own self-realisations while looking for rocks, and the fact that the plot diverted him off into a fakeout death while the actual moment that he'd been building towards for 20 years solved itself without his presence — obviating the need for anyone to actually confront him.

————————————

And then... I guess everyone was deemed "solved" and "fixed", because I think everyone in the MSQ-crew pretty much became a homogeneous mass after that plot point was done.

Unless you count Alisae sometimes being "bored" by serious adult discussions, Alphinaud saying something HiLaRiOuSLy tactless, Urianger's emotional vulnerabilities being exploited again (and him being shamed for it), or G'raha trying to figure out how to friend you on Instagram... as "tension / conflict".

[TheDecay]

Unless you count Alisae sometimes being "bored" by serious adult discussions, Alphinaud saying something HiLaRiOuSLy tactless, Urianger's emotional vulnerabilities being exploited again (and him being shamed for it), or G'raha trying to figure out how to friend you on Instagram... as "tension / conflict".

It is "tension / conflict" if this is a slice of life anime.

Unfortunately, that is exactly what the story feels like now: slice of life anime wrapped in god-killing antics.

[Vyrerus]

For about 4.5 seconds we had hints of actual tension between Thancred and Y'shtola over his delusional hopes of turning Ryne into Minfilia 2 in order to "undo" his own guilt about past events at the cost of someone else's childhood/life.

However, this was waved-away almost instantly, and then we went off to run around a temple with rabbit amazons (which was awesome, don't get me wrong).

Then it got briefly lampshaded when Y'shtola outright says, "Yeah, I'm not going with you to Amh Araeng, because I'll probably say something mean to Thancred along the way. Good luck out there."

And then it just resolved itself, through Thancred's own self-realisations while looking for rocks, and the fact that the plot diverted him off into a fakeout death while the actual moment that he'd been building towards for 20 years solved itself without his presence — obviating the need for anyone to actually confront him.

————————————

And then... I guess everyone was deemed "solved" and "fixed", because I think everyone in the MSQ-crew pretty much became a homogeneous mass after that plot point was done.

Unless you count Alisae sometimes being "bored" by serious adult discussions, Alphinaud saying something HiLaRiOuSLy tactless, Urianger's emotional vulnerabilities being exploited again (and him being shamed for it), or G'raha trying to figure out how to friend you on Instagram... as "tension / conflict".

I love you

[Elissar]

This right here is a major issue I have with the game's storytelling in recent years. There are genuinely interesting places in this game's universe with interesting people with interesting points of view that differ from the scions' in major ways. But the story always treats us as the 'correct' point of view, and if someone disagrees with us, they're typically portrayed as the bad guy and/or outright wrong, arrogant, stupid, etc for thinking the way they do.

That is the only aspect that i don't like about the MSQ. We "solve" every political problem with democracy and equality. Ul'dah, Ala Mhigo and Ishgard. Shame.

[VelKallor]

We "solve" every political problem with democracy and equality. Ul'dah, Ala Mhigo and Ishgard. Shame.

We solved Ishgard by standing toe to toe with an enraged, incredibly powerful dragon hellbent on vengeance, who wanted little else than death to all he hated.

We solved Ala Migho by helping win a bitter, hard fought, bloodsoaked campaign for independence that cost thousands of lives. We won, yes, but at a horrible cost. What was left will take decades to rebuild.