Dragon Sight change - Just remove positionals already

[Avenheit]

Positionals encourage players to move. It's a great learning tool for new players as well instead of just standing there treating each enemy like a lifeless training dummy.

Combat is getting bland and boring as is, I really don't want positional to leave.

2 minute rotations as a combat design were bad enough.

[Mikey_R]

Nice job taking what I said out of context, or at least ignoring the context entirely.

1. Surely you are not about to compare hitting positionals in FFXIV (moving 1mm left/right) to the same thing as footsies or screen spacing in fighting games? I hope you can clearly understand the distinction between the two when I talk about the "skill" required to play these games by comparison, and not taking what I say out of context or misunderstanding it. That would be a terrible look...But yes your explanation would more or less be proving my point if you didn't misunderstand what I was saying. Or at least the reason I was saying it.

2. You say that it's the same in FFXIV, but it's not. When those situations come up, you literally have buttons to press that let you ignore the situation. Which again, I brought up....Which invalidates the entire point of the positionals as a mechanic being a challenge when the "skill" of performing them is to in fact know when you don't need to do them by pressing a single button.

3. If anything I would point out how hard fighting games are as perceived by new players and why developers are always so invested in making them easier for more casuals players to get into, which still doesn't account for actual fighting game fundamentals such as spacing...Which is more or less the complete opposite of how FFXIV is perceived, rightfully so, because it's already so welcoming to new players and they are STILL making adjustments so there is less of a skill gap.

4. The difference in physically/mentally playing a job in FFXIV (NOT the fight mechanics) is nothing compared to learning/playing a fighting game character in terms of execution required.

1. But that is exactly what you did, used spacing in fighting games, claiming they are the lowest level of skill and using that to justify why positionals shouldn't exist. If it isn't relevant, why did you bring it up in the first place? Also, positionals are more than just moving slightly left and right as has been explained countless times. Positionals in a vacuum don't seem to add much, but once you have to start dancing around mechanics, that is when they become fun.

2. The balance between the availability of positional ignoring options and the frequency in which you need to use them should always be considered. Old RoE was too much and I would say current TN is also too much. You should need to choose when to use the option and potentially plan their use for each fight. Might this mean you don't get 100% positionals? Probably, but noone expects you to hit everything anyway, plus, as they are now, hitting 99/98% of them as opposed to 100% isn't going to make or break a fight.

3. That's because you can't really ease someone into a fighting game. Sure, you can beat up an AI, but that is nothing compared to a human, which requires a very very different mindset and extensive knowledge of everything you and your opponent can do in each given situation so that you can properly formulate a response to whatever might be happening. FFXIV doesn't have that, so you cannot compare them in that way.

4. No, it isn't. But that was never your point, or mine.

I will once again point to casters who have ways to cancel out their cast times, so why is it an issue of melees have a way to cancel positionals?

And now, again, for the question I always ask but noone wants to answer, let's even make it bold to try and attract some eyes to it this time:

Why could we NOT have the melees cover the whole spectrum in regards to number of positionals? Have a melee that has none, have some in the middle, have one with loads. Everyone should be satisfied then as there will be a job for everyone.

[SerMicha]

Why could we NOT have the melees cover the whole spectrum in regards to number of positionals? Have a melee that has none, have some in the middle, have one with loads. Everyone should be satisfied then as there will be a job for everyone.

If RPR had 0 positionals and MNK had 6, you'd be amazed (or not) how many Reapers will complain that MNK is unplayable due to its positional requirements. People love to complain about jobs they don't play.
If that RPR complained that MNK is too hard, and a MNK responds saying they enjoy the job that way, we could probably guess whose side SE would take (EW SMN, SHB Healers).

I agree that jobs need to have varying gaps between skill floors/ceilings. A job with a low skill floor AND ceiling would be fine, as long as we keep some jobs with a high ceiling. What you're suggesting is fine, IMO.
Unfortunately, SE's way of making jobs more accessible/approachable is to lower both floor and ceiling, rather than just lower the floor while trying to maintain the ceiling. They could have totally introduced Blitzes without removing positionals.
I'd be disappointed but not surprised if they did remove positionals at some point...

[Aco505]

Tl;dr: Please get your facts straight before using parts of the game you clearly never played as if they warranted any part of your conclusions. Also, they don't; if anything, they disprove them.

Sadly, opinions on topics not based on relevant experience or previous reading from trustworthy sources are too common.

Might this mean you don't get 100% positionals? Probably, but noone expects you to hit everything anyway, plus, as they are now, hitting 99/98% of them as opposed to 100% isn't going to make or break a fight.

There should always be a way of hitting them all (or almost all, perhaps missing 1 if RNG is involved) even in duties like P11S. The entire point of the fun in positionals is to optimize them in fights where they are harder to hit.

Missing them all is a 4% DPS loss so it's no big deal but the challenge of perfecting their use is great, even going so far as to predict the turns of the boss. However, I do understand that in PF or with inexperienced tanks, it can be a bit bothersome due to each player handling movement differently.

[ForsakenRoe]

Something to remember is that missing every positional takes effort. As much effort, in fact, as hitting them all. If you stood at the boss's rear for the whole fight, you wouldn't be 'missing every positional' because you'd still get the rear ones. Additionally the effective loss from 'missing a positional' is different between each job. Standing on the rear the whole time as a DRG loses you a 40p posi bonus from Fang and Claw twice per GCD loop. Doing the same as NIN only loses you the Armor Crush bonus, once per 30s. Positionals are the one thing that we can point to that still justifies melee having higher damage than the other classes, if they were removed, I'd expect that melee take a 5% dps loss across the board. Then every class can be roughly equal in potency output, except BLM who somehow is like 8% ahead of everyone else

[IronCheeks]

Getting rid of positionals would make combat so boring

[Mostly_Raxus]

nah make casters and range do positionals too. then maybe they will buff them to be comparable damage levels seeing as the hit boxes are the size of entire arenas so melee dont really deal with down time anymore...

honestly tho positional kinda suck, your reliant of strangers controlling the boss in a lot of cases that allow you to do your rotation correctly, its kind of the same reason living dead sucked pre fix, i like the ideal of positions offering a reward for correct game play but hate the ideal that certain classes are so punished by it that it completely ruins your damage profile.
i think sam is a good use of positionals versus DRG a bad use

[Ransu]

Getting rid of positionals would make combat so boring

It wouldn't change a damn thing.

[Shurrikhan]

It wouldn't change a damn thing.

It objectively would. In the same way as getting rid of some 10% of our buttons pressed per minute or optimizations available objectively would change things to at least some degree. Maybe not always to a point of huge significance, but it's objectively a change.

???

[Payadopa]

Wanting to remove yet another aspect of the combat just shows how shortsighted the people asking for it are. Like, honestly. lol

A battle system should be more than the sum of its parts. If you only examine each aspect in a vacuum none would hold up. Do we need MP? Just remove it then. Do we need more than just crit? Just remove it then. Do we need combos? Just remove it then. Do we need Kaiten? It's just one button to press. In the bin. Do we need bosses? People don't like losing. Just remove them all. Oh, wait. Now no game is left anymore. lol

Again, the notion that bare bones combat would be improved by removing yet another aspect is absurd to me.