Discuss: Should new jobs start at level 1?

[Shurrikhan]

I don't have as much logical warrant behind this preference as I would like, but...

I'd really just like to see the ARR levels squished to, say, 30 in total AND, more importantly, for roughly half of all gameplay-additive elements from our expansions to be accelerated (pushed earlier) by 2-3 expansions.

Relatively uninteresting ability rewards for leveling through another expansion is a very minor issue compared to taking so damn long to build a compelling kit.

(Assuming some improvements to control over active mitigation, with Brutal Shell's cure+barrier being exchanged for suppression via Burst Strike, and Continuation granting a layer of Evasion-shield, etc.) Gunbreaker should have Continuation by level 60, Hypervelocity by 70, Heart of Corundum (revamped to be a follow-up action after HoS) by 80. Bard should have access to all three songs by the end of ARR and about 10-20 levels' more complexity at the end of each expansion. Etc., etc.

Personally, I don't much care if I end up going to level 120 someday. I do mind new players having our modern day gutted leveling experience, especially if they're not given the option to skip the whole ARR-EW plot arch and jump straight to Plot Arch #2.

[ICountFrom0]

I wish all jobs started at zero.

I want jobs and classes for everything.

I want full plotlines for everything.

It aint happening though.

Each expansion would require more and more effort for each job added.

[Shurrikhan]

<snip>

Unless your intent is specifically just to increase the penalty of multi-leveling by having n repetitions of all the same content... couldn't you just do this by making new characters? You can have 8 per server, after all...

[Raraka]

Something that they tried with DNC and GNB was giving you a tutorial quest to play around, but it wasn't as fleshed out, but then the SGE quest does a great job by even mentioning some of the more important spells you should use (Aka, "hey put Krasis on me", "hey use eukrasia to put a shield", etc...)

I bet most people skipped the first quest beause they saw the only quest unlock was at lvl80 and leveled directly there to do the quests in bulk

If they keep going the same route as the SGE quest, maybe giving a instanced duty on the unlock quest with a "Roleplay scenario" as a NPC you meet, where you have only the most important 6 or 7 skills of the class, could be an effective way to set up the groundwork for when you unlock the job

[ty_taurus]

Something that they tried with DNC and GNB was giving you a tutorial quest to play around, but it wasn't as fleshed out, but then the SGE quest does a great job by even mentioning some of the more important spells you should use (Aka, "hey put Krasis on me", "hey use eukrasia to put a shield", etc...)

I bet most people skipped the first quest beause they saw the only quest unlock was at lvl80 and leveled directly there to do the quests in bulk

If they keep going the same route as the SGE quest, maybe giving a instanced duty on the unlock quest with a "Roleplay scenario" as a NPC you meet, where you have only the most important 6 or 7 skills of the class, could be an effective way to set up the groundwork for when you unlock the job

I mean, the Sage tutorial kinda teaches you to heal wrong though too. It tries to teach you the mindset of using your GCD barriers for tankbusters, something that's a complete waste of time and resources in actual gameplay.

[ICountFrom0]

Unless your intent is specifically just to increase the penalty of multi-leveling by having n repetitions of all the same content... couldn't you just do this by making new characters? You can have 8 per server, after all...

The "repetitions of all the same content" are the problem. Given 90 levels of content, you'd THINK that they'd manage to make a story for each and every one of them. Since this is me talking about what I dream of existing, I get to dream of every class having a wonderfully complicated, differeniated, and detailed quest. Things are far apart from eachother as the paladin and the reaper quests.

[Shurrikhan]

The "repetitions of all the same content" are the problem. Given 90 levels of content, you'd THINK that they'd manage to make a story for each and every one of them. Since this is me talking about what I dream of existing, I get to dream of every class having a wonderfully complicated, differeniated, and detailed quest. Things are far apart from eachother as the paladin and the reaper quests.

Sure, but whether they get job quests or not isn't my point. Per job quest arch, the job quests themselves provide at best a single level of experience.

The remaining 90% of experience by which to level those jobs you'd want to each start from lv1 is, again, repetitions of that same content by which any other alt was leveled -- grinding daily roulettes, dungeons, and FATEs.

[dspguy]

There's no real reason new jobs can't start at 1. It isn't like all of the new jobs that started at 30, 50, 60 and 70 don't scale to level 15 for Sastasha. They are all playable. It seems like SE is just trying to fulfill the instant gratification that many players want.

What would make good sense is to maybe introduce the job in a quest line where you play the mentor NPC with the full kit. So you see how a job like Reaper would play at 70 (or 90). Then you start at 1 (where you should be anyway) and work your way up to it. Obviously, they can't do this now and they've already set a precedent but maybe they'll do something different in 7.0 for new jobs (if there are any).

[Shurrikhan]

There's no real reason new jobs can't start at 1. It isn't like all of the new jobs that started at 30, 50, 60 and 70 don't scale to level 15 for Sastasha. They are all playable. It seems like SE is just trying to fulfill the instant gratification that many players want.

Is... not wanting to repeat the exact same content for the umpteenth time (because the devs can't be bothered to allow for any breadth of content at remotely balanced efficiency) really wanting "instant gratification", though?

The alleged purpose of starting at level 1 was always just to familiarize the player with play. However, those jobs can only be accessed by someone already familiar with the game's play. At most, this would perhaps warrant requiring at least a dungeon or two's worth of experience on a tank before, say, unlocking DRK or on a healer before unlocking AST... except for the fact that, for instance, Haukke Manor isn't really any more difficult to learn "Tanking" or "Healing" in than is Sastasha.

"Yes, >80% of your actions are exactly the same, but you're now using a 30% longer sword, so we need to infantilize you again on the assumption you've completely forgotten how to play now that your sword is longer." Ehh... Nah.

[Tint]

There's no real reason new jobs can't start at 1. It isn't like all of the new jobs that started at 30, 50, 60 and 70 don't scale to level 15 for Sastasha. They are all playable. It seems like SE is just trying to fulfill the instant gratification that many players want.

When a job would start at level 1 then SE has to create a ton of weapons for all these levels. When they let them start at a much higher level SE can just skip the work of creating dozens of different weapons and safes a lot of money on dev time.

But also yes, who wants to spend hours running the same old dungeons again?

When I want to start a new job at level 1 I enter Palace of the Dead (solo, so I can take my time looking at tooltips). Then I don't have to bother with all the skills at once, but I also learn new skills in a much faster pace, which I prefer.