Me as a newbie after skimming through the forum be like

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

Except you do. Only difference is that instead of pressing Upheaval once during your burst you spam "Upheaval of Shadow" 5 times before going back to 1-2-3 for 45 seconds.

So the big difference between Dark Knight and Warrior is whether you want carpal tunnel followed by mindnumbing boredom or just mindnumbing boredom, incredible.

Ah. You don't read their abilities. I understand now why you think they're the same.

Funny how vastly different you negative forum posters are compared to rest of the fanbase that don't see the game at all like you do.

[Shinkuno]

So then why does this argument even occur when 99.5% of raiders will never have a week one clear and the other 0.5% are dedicated enough to be willing to switch jobs as needed because getting the clear is more important to them than what job they're playing?

The really good raiders don't bitch about job balance when they're struggling on a fight. They look for the ways they can do things better. That can include switching to a job that has slightly better utility for what the fight demands but most of the time it's not necessary.

Because most people are bad at the game and if you would design the game around them every class would have 2 buttons. What kind of argument even is this. "Oh yeah most people are so bad they need to be carried in leveling dungeons so balance doesnt matter anyway" LOL

Ah. You don't read their abilities. I understand now why you think they're the same.

Funny how vastly different you negative forum posters are compared to rest of the fanbase that don't see the game at all like you do.

Because many players just do their daily roulettes while being half asleep then go back to AFK in Limsa. Hard to have any meaningful opinions about the game when you dont really play it.

[Mosha]

Ah. You don't read their abilities. I understand now why you think they're the same.

Funny how vastly different you negative forum posters are compared to rest of the fanbase that don't see the game at all like you do.

Man, I just remember back in Stormblood when Jobs felt different but now they have become so homogenized by the 2min burst window combat system. But you're right that extra ogcd in my PLDs burst window compared to WARs one makes a fucking world of difference

[Renathras]

STOP. WITH. THIS. ALREADY

NO! YOU stop.

These forums are for everyone. You don't get some exclusive use contract with your super first class citizen account.

Stop quoting random numbers.

While I agree with you that context matters...

1) They aren't random numbers. This has been pretty consistently true for a while now in FFXIV. Sometimes the gap is less than 1%.

2) Factoring in the context, it is NOT the difference between a wipe and a clear unless you're doing hard push, world first/first week clears, which is a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Moreover, that is FAR more dependent on your overall party comp. Did you have a MCH in your party? Well, what were your other Jobs? A SAM and BLM? You're good on damage. The issue was more if you lined up ALL the low performing Jobs in a single party, and were playing launch week, you couldn't clear P8S, because it was overtuned. The Devs themselves said they tuned it 1% too high, and when they lowered that - EVERY JOB COULD CLEAR IN EVERY COMP WHEN GIVEN SKILLED PLAYERS. Moreover, for the entire rest of the playerbase NOT doing that, it was 100% irrelevant. MOREOVER moreover, this also isn't relevant in Ultimates since the issue there is more the application windows of damage, which is why Jobs like BLM, despite having high damage (and good movement tools to apply it all), have had issues at different times because they might be able to slow damage when needed but not apply it (or enough of it) when needed. RDM has had difficulty with this. DRK has been OP in Ultimates in EW due to having its resources generate no matter what while GNB and to an extent WAR only build when the boss is targetable, etc.

All of those effects are FAR more involved in any imbalances and lack of early clears.

And, again, this does not matter to the vast majority of the playerbase - I know you hate me mentioning majority, but we all know AND AGREE that world first race and week 1 clears are NOT a large portion of the playerbase.

For LITERALLY everyone else, including likely OP, everything I said is perfectly true.

I'm tired of you trying to fight me in literally every thread, especially when you aren't right.

FFXIV Ben Shipero doesn't understand this

Reported. I'm tired of dealing with your heckling BS. At least in some of your posts, you add some comment pertinent to the discussion. That was just problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) as a straight insult (as you DID intend it as an insult) completely off topic with no relevance to the topic at hand.

I'm no scientist but wouldn't that imply SE was making content that was like "gold parse correct jobs only", because I feel like I usually hear from good players that bringing meta jobs literally never matters.

Bingo.

The same cadre of people telling me I'm wrong here (when I'm not) are the same cadre of people who insist doing things like making Jobs harder is fine because everyone can still clear the content a few weeks later and that all the normal content in the game this doesn't matter for.

Or players could get 2% better at playing their jobs instead of blaming the developers for minor differences.

Unless you're going for a week one clear at minimum ilvl, it's not going to be the 2% difference in optimal job balance that's going to be the difference between a wipe and a clear. It's going to be that 2% less than optimal player performance that caused the wipe.

It gets really tiresome listening to people who want to blame job balance for their party failures.


I wouldn't say "literally never matters". First week of P8S is an example of where it did matter because SE set the boss HP a little too high and even the best in the world were challenged to get it cleared without switching up their comps a bit.

But "very rarely matters" would be accurate. Most failure is caused by player performance, not job balance.

Correct on all points.

The only time it's relevant is one fight where the Devs tuned the boss too high. All other cases, it can be corrected by either gear or better play. And the Devs have shown when the content is literally overtuned, they will lower it to where it is doable. It not only matters very rarely, it only matters to a very small sliver of the playerbase.

People on the forums typically jump to extremes whenever it comes to whatever they're arguing about. You have one crowd that believes the game is a steaming pile of you-know-what and you have another crowd that believes that the game is absolutely immaculate and that there's no point in having any discussion over it.

This isn't really true, though. VERY few people seem to believe the game is "absolutely immaculate". Most people who are happy with the game will frequently point out that it has flaws and point out things they think need fixing. There's a caricature by your first group that the second group ore positivity zombies, but it's simply not true at all. Almost every "white knight" here talks about changes the game needs, they just disagree with the doom and gloom hyperbolic hysteria.

Funny how vastly different you negative forum posters are compared to rest of the fanbase that don't see the game at all like you do.

This is pretty true. The disconnect is oddly extensive, too. It's like they're playing a completely different game.

Man, I just remember back in Stormblood when Jobs felt different but now they have become so homogenized by the 2min burst window combat system. But you're right that extra ogcd in my PLDs burst window compared to WARs one makes a fucking world of difference

This I agree with.

The 2 min meta is a cancer, and is very much the reason that things are weird as they are. Much of current imbalance that does exist is driven by how well the Job does (or doesn't) bit in the 2 min meta (the rest is driven by Meleewalker Melee being overtuned/Ranged being undertuned vs the "trade off" of giant lack of uptime, which is no longer a thing with massive hitboxes), and it's also the reason so many Jobs can feel (to some people) very similar.

I very much hope they get rid of the 2 min meta in 7.0, because it's painted them into a corner in terms of Job design and it makes the game a lot less fun. And the worst part is, it didn't help any of the problems it was supposed to help fix. Maybe it made designing encounters "easier", but it's led to an overall decline in encounter design and Job distinction.

And I say this as a person who still believes that Jobs aren't homogenized and they all feel different to play; it's still not good and the 2 min meta needs to go.

[LittleImp]

It's weird watching players that only interact with hard content in their dreams vehemently defend a balancing meta that they have probably never even come remotely close to interacting with.

Games should be balanced according to the contexts within themselves where balance matters the most (mindblowing). In this games case, that means the vast majority of their balancing focus should be around Week 1-3 Savage and Ultimates. Everything else, from dungeons to normal trials and 24 mans, is frankly irrelevant and is intended to be cleared by slamming your head into your keyboard after huffing glue.

That said, I think the approach they took this tier is a decent solution in lieu of making waves and making major changes to jobs so late into the expansion. I haven't seen any meta related squabbles at all this tier, aside from a few harmless jokes towards RDM. Even in week 1 p12s, people weren't locking out jobs like they did the previous two tiers.

[Absurdity]

Ah. You don't read their abilities. I understand now why you think they're the same.

And you apparently did nothing but read their abilities, neither playing nor understanding them properly.

[Zairava]

Ah. You don't read their abilities. I understand now why you think they're the same.

Funny how vastly different you negative forum posters are compared to rest of the fanbase that don't see the game at all like you do.

You sure are confident for someone who obviously has no clue what they're talking about.

If you actually did read the tooltips you would know how they're on a very thin line between playing the exact same.

Give me a break. We're sick and tired of giving this feedback they ask us for to get no updates outside of mostly part two of major patch liveletters and before the next expansion. I don't care if you or anyone else think that's too negative or not, I'm still going to give feedback and suggestions now and then.

What's that? Insurmountable amount of feedback against Kaiten removal? Here have more range on Tenka Goken. lmao

Here, I'll even dumb down the main abilities for WAR and DRK for you.

you have your standard 1-2-3. Does that really need explaining, honestly?

Warrior has a 4 in the form of Storm's eye, which adds some minor brain stem usage since it's a combo ender that you must use to maintain your damage buff.

Warrior also has upheavel/orogeny which is just something you press on cooldown(30s) so it doesn't drift outside of your burst window.

DRK's "4/5" are ogcd's that cost 3k mp. Using these grant Darkside which is a damage buff that requires no thought to maintain. Honestly a near pointless gauge on the UI as it stands.

Your 1-2-3(and 4 for WAR) builds gauge.

You use this gauge on the exact same ability functionality. You have 50 gauge in downtime? You use it on your respective gauge spenders to not overcap.

That's it. That's all there is outside of your burst window. You don't even use MP on edge/flood during downtime unless you didn't have any use for TBN, and if TBN doesn't pop, it's a damage loss.

Your mp and DA stack gets stored for your burst. Every cooldown is stored for your burst. The only time the jobs play even remotely differently is during their burst and even then they STILL play similar. Dark Knight just weaves more ogcd's in..and guess what? They're just boring damage buttons with no other interactions.

Delirium lets you use 3 Bloodspiller/Quietus, Inner Release lets you use 3 Fell Cleave/Decimate and grants access to Primal Rend. They function identically except for that IR is direct crits and grants a finisher and Delirium makes Bloodspiller get a bonus *...checks notes* whopping 200mp.

[TheMightyMollusk]

A thread questioning the state of the forums has become a near-perfect encapsulation of the state of the forums. All we need now is for it to go quiet for a few months and then get bumped again and it'll be perfect.

[Zairava]

A thread questioning the state of the forums has become a near-perfect encapsulation of the state of the forums. All we need now is for it to go quiet for a few months and then get bumped again and it'll be perfect.

whenever I see the ye regular troll(s) start to necro everything again I usually know it's time to dip for a bit. Not that I don't usually check the dumpster fire for amusement sometimes

[NiceNox]

Welcome to FFXIV General Discussion Forum, The Twitter Of MMORPG. Enjoy your stay~