Yet another SMN thread: SMN is the only job that doesn't have a gauge/proc management

[Vandso]

apologies for the waybackmachine link, the sub is down today:

https://web.archive.org/web/20221020...om/t6eJLaj.png

Unless I'm looking at that totally incorrectly, SMN appears to be very popular for an "unfinished job".

Summoner is popular because it's easy. As I said, casual "I want my glam!" job.

[Deo14]

Why force players to play an unfinished job for 2.5 years tho?

I know, they would never do that, right?

[Eorzean_username]

I think it would definitely make more sense to begin with the basic Summons (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan), and then build to the "powerful Summons" (Bahamut, Phoenix).

Right now, the Job feels backwards — you get your most powerful payoff "for free"... just sitting there on your hotbar... with no constraints... and then using your powerful move unlocks your "filler". Feels weird.

Some sort of "Astral Eikon Gauge" that gains pips from each Gem Summon, and at 3, you can Summon Bahamut.

After Summon Bahamut, your Gems flip to the opposite Elements, allowing you to Summon Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, which builds "Umbral Eikon Gauge" and allows you to Summon Phoenix.

After Summon Phoenix, your Gems flip back to the original Elements.

Once you Summon both Bahamut and Phoenix, you unlock the ability to Summon [Warring Triad / Alexander / Zodiark / Hydaelyn / whatever giant flashy Level 100 Summon they choose] as your final ultimate attack of your damage cycle.

To make it less stale / rigid, they could also allow you to flip the order of Bahamut and Phoenix — for example, a "toggle action" that switches you between Astral Gems and Umbral Gems.

Or they could be really crazy and bold (by SE's standards) and allow you to use all 6 Gems freely, and it's up to you to decide which Gauge to fill up first. This would create a system in which the optimal idea might even be to go through all 6 "Elemental" Summons for the first 120s, then unload Bahamut, Phoenix, and WarringXanderArkDaelyn during a thermonuclear 2m window.

Would also really prefer a lot more actual spellcasting (ie, more Ruin 3 in the loop, at the bare minimum), OGCD Summons (they feel awful as slow / dead / "empty" GCDs), and to have the crappy Arcanist "leftovers" stripped out (Aetherflow / Energy Drain / Fester / Pointless Carbuncle).

Actually, some kind of "Carbuncle Gauge" that lets you supercharge "mild-mannered Carbuncle" into "Proto Carbuncle", which functions as a Living Shadow / Queen Automaton style pseudo-dot, might be amusing.

...Regardless of the exact details, Summoner definitely needs to have less of a feeling of, "Nothing I actually do matters, and I get the same results no matter what" and "I am on auto-pilot".

And to please stop screwing around with Ifrit/Garuda/Titan after 10+ (!!!) years, and finally fill out the rest of the iconic FF Elemental Summons.

[Boblawblah]

Summoner is popular because it's easy. As I said, casual "I want my glam!" job.

So if it's one of the most popular classes in the game because it's the as you say "I want my glam" (btw, what does that even mean?), why on earth would you think SE would say "hmm, let's make it more complicated"?

[Raikai]

apologies for the waybackmachine link, the sub is down today:

https://web.archive.org/web/20221020...om/t6eJLaj.png

Unless I'm looking at that totally incorrectly, SMN appears to be very popular for an "unfinished job".

It was (is?) but I could see the hype with the new 'coat of paint'... Or just the fact that people want a caster that is extremely easy to reach the skill ceiling, and with a rez. I myself played SMN a lot in the past patches, but more as an attachment to the job fantasy itself than anything else, but the simplicity eventually got to me.

[Ivtrix]

So if it's one of the most popular classes in the game because it's the as you say "I want my glam" (btw, what does that even mean?), why on earth would you think SE would say "hmm, let's make it more complicated"?

I mean, ease of play is a factor and to argue against it is ignorant. Unless you are actually hardcore about BLM or RDM, SMN is the easy option.

Insane mobility, party utility, self mitigation. It’s essentially a phys ranged in the caster slot. It does as much damage as rdm and is far easier to hit the upper limits of optimization. So again, if you arnt hardcore about BLM or RDM, it’s a very appealing choice for someone looking to play caster.

The issue once again remains that SMNs skill floor and skill ceiling are so close together you would have difficulty sliding a piece of paper in between the two.

[RaionKansen]

The thing about Summoner is that you can do your rotation with your eyes closed. Easily. The only button I need to pay attention in my hotbar is Summon Bahamut/Phoenix. Aetherflow stacks don't matter. Gemstones don't matter. My pet doesn't matter. They're all scripted an repetitive, there's not need for change or adaptation. Just adding more buttons to press (let's say, a third Aetherflow stack for example) won't make the job more enjoyable. I want to be able to decide whether Summon A or B is better for the current situation, have more options to use Aetherflow differently, have a reason to be aware of my pet's position, maybe brings DoT back? Maybe make Physic worthwhile? If Summoner doesn't have any reason to pay attention to their gauges, than at least bring more situational skills to their kit.

Sounds like you dont do any content because you have to shift around your order or maybe even use Ruin IV early to optimize certain mechanics for uptime. Adding more DoTs just because would add nothing to gameplay unless its something very interactive like WoW's Affliction Warlock or Shadow Priest

[Raikai]

...Regardless of the exact details, Summoner definitely needs to have less of a feeling of, "Nothing I actually do matters, and I get the same results no matter what" and "I am on auto-pilot".

And to please stop screwing around with Ifrit/Garuda/Titan after 10+ (!!!) years, and finally fill out the rest of the iconic FF Elemental Summons.

Yeah, I would appreciate any of those ideas moving forward. And your comment about the job payload being reversed really makes sense.

I still think that the aetherflow/energy drain/ruin 4 mechanics feels like that fridge leftover from 2 days ago. Might not be the most tasty thing, but nourishes. SMN could really do better without those and with a 'side kit' that actually promoted interactions with the gemstones or the demi phases.

And Carbuncle... for god's sake, they need to do something other than having the useless pet being just a shielding hindrance. The overcharge idea is nice. I would add a 'dps Embrace' auto attack to it, because even if it would be a tiny portion of your damage, still feels better to see it doing anything other than twerking not even facing the boss.

[Vandso]

Sounds like you dont do any content because you have to shift around your order or maybe even use Ruin IV early to optimize certain mechanics for uptime. Adding more DoTs just because would add nothing to gameplay unless its something very interactive like WoW's Affliction Warlock or Shadow Priest

I don't necessarily want DoTs, I just think that it's worth a try. Also, wasn't Summoner the ultimate DoT management job?
And of course Summoner have to make some optimization changes depending on the fight, but it's not every fight. Almost none actually.

[Jeeqbit]

PLD doesn't really have gauge management either, except for defense which you don't even need to "manage" in the first place. Since other jobs have this, we will most likely see that in 7.0.

The thing about Summoner is that you can do your rotation with your eyes closed. Easily. The only button I need to pay attention in my hotbar is Summon Bahamut/Phoenix.

And Garuda/Titan/Ifrit. I find Summoner fun to play, so the ease doesn't matter to me.

I want to be able to decide whether Summon A or B is better for the current situation

I've chosen to use Ifrit when I know a gap closer is going to be useful and I've used a different summon when I need to be far away for a while.

I'm not sure what else they could actually do that is like that. They could make them do actual elemental damage and have elemental strengths and weaknesses but then some jobs completely wouldn't be viable in certain content.

maybe brings DoT back?

Garuda's puddle area is a DoT, technically.