Please add item level sync to older trials.

[Boblawblah]

I'm not convinced that new players are leaving the game because trials are too easy. Does anyone have any data that might suggest that new players are indeed frustrated by the lack of difficulty in MSQ trials/dungeons?

[Tehmon]

I'm not convinced that new players are leaving the game because trials are too easy. Does anyone have any data that might suggest that new players are indeed frustrated by the lack of difficulty in MSQ trials/dungeons?

It's not about them leaving the game, it's about delivering a well-rounded experience which includes an exciting final trial for a very emotional story that is coming to it's conclusion (partially). I doubt anyone drops the game just because Thordan or other early expansion trials are pushovers these days, but it certainly doesn't ADD to the experience that they are pushovers.

[Boblawblah]

It's not about them leaving the game, it's about delivering a well-rounded experience which includes an exciting final trial for a very emotional story that is coming to it's conclusion (partially). I doubt anyone drops the game just because Thordan or other early expansion trials are pushovers these days, but it certainly doesn't ADD to the experience that they are pushovers.

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

[EderTheBro]

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

Absolutely asinine counterargument.

This is what happens when people are contrarian SE defenders for the sake of being contrarian SE defenders.

From experience it seems to be the opposite. Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go. They wouldn't like it if things were capped and it was not a guaranteed kill every time.
You can see how people reacted to the 2nd and 3rd Endwalker Trials or Seat of Sacrifice Normal to see what would happen, people would unequip gear to not get those on their roulette or would immediately leave on loading in and seeing the duty title. Most existing players wouldn't tolerate more than 1-2 pulls of any content that's not the current endgame.

The solution is to make older trials harder as well.

Apart from this: It *is* an MMORPG and as much as many people who have been with us for a while like to dismiss it, new people sign up every day and experience the MSQ for the first time. They shouldn't be punished for not being able to play this game ten years ago and on every release day/patch day since. Especially not in a game that says "everyone can play it at their own pace" and "no content is truly obsolete" as part of their unique selling point. If content being dated is making the MSQ experience disappointing in a story heavy game from a story heavy franchise, it's on the devs to do something against it. And considering they already did this with dungeons with item level sync and lately also some reworks, I really don't see why they shouldn't do this with trials either. At least for MSQ relevant trials like Thordan, Seat of Sacrifice or Endsinger. (I don't really mind not seeing all phases of the Four Lords trials or the Warring Triad, because they are not MSQ, but the more the merrier.)

This, and also literally why do so many 'veterans" prefer faceroll trial roulettes? They're clearly only doing it for the tomes, not because it's fun. Ironically many of the same FF14 white knights only do content because of the carrot and not because of the innate fun of the content. Having harder trial roulettes means it's actually fun again; good for the "veterans" who actually want to play a game and not just play Poetics Farming Simulator 2017.

The only reason why so many people are against this is because they don't actually enjoy FF14 as a game. They are addicted to farming poetics and completing a checklist. They want to finish their homework ASAP and don't want Thordan to take more than 3 minutes. To these people: go play a KMMO or some shit, or maybe just go get your actual IRL chores done. The devs should literally completely ignore this group of players.

[MsMisato]

Okay then, do you have any data that backs up new players preferring to have a more challenging experience in the MSQ trials/dungeons compared to now? The point I'm making is why would SE change what is currently working? For certain fights, they have changed them because they were meme worthy for years (Cape Westwind), and maybe that will happen again but I don't see it right now. I enjoyed the Thordan fight and I also enjoyed the newer more difficult trials.

edit: Also, I wonder if all vet players would prefer a more difficult roulette experience. From what I've seen, the vast majority just want to get through it, but I could be wrong.

honestly the people that I have done min ilvl trails and raids with they had fun despite it being hard. soo I think the MSQ should be ilvl sync maybe Not min ilvl, but maybe the max ilvl that was available for that trail at the time of release. good example is CT. at max it should be ilvl synced to a hard cap on ilvl 80, 90, 110 respectively for those 3 raids for example. I also think they need to rework the rewards for it to be appropriate for those running roulette especially for higher level content.

But it was hilarious getting to watch people flailing about not knowing mechanics. when we we did lota min ilvl and wiped so many times on King Behemoth. I don't it was awesome to see people witness the mechanics and get through those trails. I was fortunate to do alot of the content at their respective ilvls when those trails and such released.

I don't like unsyncing things off the bat and its sad to see the mentality of like NN mentors and such running everything unsynced. its off putting.

[VerdeLuck]

It's not about them leaving the game, it's about delivering a well-rounded experience which includes an exciting final trial for a very emotional story that is coming to it's conclusion (partially). I doubt anyone drops the game just because Thordan or other early expansion trials are pushovers these days, but it certainly doesn't ADD to the experience that they are pushovers.

From experience it seems to be the opposite. Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go. They wouldn't like it if things were capped and it was not a guaranteed kill every time.
You can see how people reacted to the 2nd and 3rd Endwalker Trials or Seat of Sacrifice Normal to see what would happen, people would unequip gear to not get those on their roulette or would immediately leave on loading in and seeing the duty title. Most existing players wouldn't tolerate more than 1-2 pulls of any content that's not the current endgame.

[UkcsAlias]

Most players in old expansion content are roulette players who want to knock it over in 1 go.

Giving bosses more health, while not increasing its damage will still make them beat it in 1 go, but will also ensure that all phases can be executed. For the sake of simplicity they could even give fixed tresholds with an invuln (or very high resistance) to avoid too quick deaths. Not everything needs to be scaled up, but skipping a phase entirely just shouldnt happen.

[NekoMataMata]

I'm not convinced that new players are leaving the game because trials are too easy. Does anyone have any data that might suggest that new players are indeed frustrated by the lack of difficulty in MSQ trials/dungeons?

I doubt it, because while a lot of old trials and duties get power creeped, some of the redone solo duties are a bit more fair. Not exactly difficult, but enough to make you push your buttons. The changed final fight of ARF usually kills most first timing sprouts. If anything I'd imagine most sprouts go into the easy trials and then proceed to struggle through content that's been retuned.

[Remish]

I'm not convinced that new players are leaving the game because trials are too easy. Does anyone have any data that might suggest that new players are indeed frustrated by the lack of difficulty in MSQ trials/dungeons?

This isn't really something I can provide definitive spread sheet data on to prove. I wouldn't even begin to know how to calculate something like this in the first place, and even if I could it would still be dismissed as an uncreditable source of data. But I do know that everytime I invite a friend to try the game, they do express how anticlimactic the fights are and that they don't feel any reason to have to be good at anything until Endgame. One of my friends at level 40 went 3 weeks crafting themselves a set of gear with melds and were sadden that it was outdated in 5mins. I warned them, but they insisted that self-progression was part of the joys in MMOs.