Another Pal an War buff patch, another middle finger to Drks

[RyuDragnier]

It occurs that if you want self-sustain tacked onto DRK, you need to be prepared both to give up several of your available existing %mitigations, and to endure an endless bitch-fest about further tank homogenization and the perceived uselessness of healers.

Yet WAR and PLD can get damage without taking any hits in other departments? A bit of a double standard, don't you think?

[Absurdity]

Not really? Its not what I'm talking about.
Its less of the fact of using it for tanking damage (which you very much still can do), and more of the fact it allows WAR to heal a DPS/Healer who aren't taking constant damage basically to full, at no real cost to itself, on a 25s cooldown, and you're still healing yourself to boot.

Using the other Tank's cover skills has way less payoff. You honestly can be mashing Nascent on CD between Tank busters, especially if you're the OT as then the entire mitigation part is more or less completely out the window at that point.

And what I meant was that using Nascent can absolutely end up worthless if it just results in overhealing the DPS/Healer, because those will most likely get aoe healing from other sources, in which case you would've been better off with the mitigation on yourself for 8 seconds.

Nascent is absolutely stronger than the other tanks' "support" skills since you can heal yourself and a secondary target at little cost, but while using Nascent loses you none of the self healing you still can't just use it on cooldown or you'll most likely end up a splat on the ground, warrior's mitigation kit is already comparatively mediocre and that's including BW's ~20%.

[ed3891]

Yet WAR and PLD can get damage without taking any hits in other departments? A bit of a double standard, don't you think?

No, I don't, because WAR/PLD have lagged behind GNB/DRK this entire expansion, and WAR in particular was locked out in PF during early Abyssos prog. You know this; you're aware of this and pretending like you weren't is absurd and casts you in a poor light.

I know that the OF is the place to doom & gloom about balance adjustments following patches, but I'm not making assumptions about where tank DPS is until after we see what numbers are put up come Savage's release this week. That said, I really doubt 10p extra on combo finishers and FC being brought back to its ShB potency is going to cause WAR to overtake DRK's damage.

[HyperiusUltima]

Yet WAR and PLD can get damage without taking any hits in other departments? A bit of a double standard, don't you think?

WAR needed the potency to become viable. PLD was completely screwed by fight design in Abyssos until it came into its current form. Can't really say it's a double standard unless one job is standing arms and shoulders above the others patch over patch.

[rxantos]

You can W2W with no problem. As long as you focus on a defensive rotation instead of an offensive one. Offensive one is great for bosses and raids. But not for trash.

[Shurrikhan]

You can W2W with no problem. As long as you focus on a defensive rotation instead of an offensive one. Offensive one is great for bosses and raids. But not for trash.

We are talking about XIV here, right?

???

Defensive rotation?
Offensive rotation?

[Absurdity]

You can W2W with no problem. As long as you focus on a defensive rotation instead of an offensive one. Offensive one is great for bosses and raids. But not for trash.

There is no "defensive rotation".

The last time we had any ability to influence our defense, besides simply not pressing the button that makes you take less damage and consequently dying, was Stormblood, where higher passive defense was an option but came at the expense of offense.


Unless by defensive rotation you mean actually pressing your defensives and by offensive rotation you mean not pressing them and standing around with a dunce cap on your head.

[Oizen]

From my experience the areas where DRK's lack of sustain are pretty niche, but the most relevant recent example I can think of is actually my attempts at Orthos Solo with the job, and this honestly hits the sweet spot where DRK's mitigations kinda break. The issue I see with the DRK sustain arguments is that DRK has this weird gap of content where TBN doesn't function due to it not breaking, and thats an issue to me because TBN is effectively DRK's only way to extend its longevity and shrug off damage.

The mobs in the early to mid floors do just enough damage to be threatening to you, but not enough damage to make TBN not a damage loss, you can use it anyway of course. But it feels shitty to do so, its also something thats entirely a unique problem to DRK.
The bosses of Deep Dungeons make this worse, as they're going to do constant damage to you, not enough to break TBN, but enough to where you have to worry about it.

It honestly makes DRK into a pot guzzling job for solo attempts of Orthos or even HoH (and in HoH TBN is basically unusable until floor 60 due to this damage threshold), and I think this is notable because I don't think this is the case for the other 3 tanks. Yeah you CAN guzzle those pots to make up for it, and honestly I HAVE started using Hyper Potions from Orthos to fill this gap in DRK's kit to great effect in all content, and even that amount of healing is enough to make DRK feel solid to me.

But its really sad to me that this consumable item from Eureka Orthos gives you more healing than everything in your kit combined.

[Shurrikhan]

The issue I see with the DRK sustain arguments is that DRK has this weird gap of content where TBN doesn't function due to it not breaking, and thats an issue to me because TBN is effectively DRK's only way to extend its longevity and shrug off damage.

The mobs in the early to mid floors do just enough damage to be threatening to you, but not enough damage to make TBN not a damage loss, you can use it anyway of course. But it feels shitty to do so, its also something thats entirely a unique problem to DRK.

Agreed.

I'd appreciate more means of control for TBN's %HP (e.g., variable MP consumption based on %MP, with consequently varied shielding -- especially if we had more means of rapid MP regeneration), or even to reduce it to a 20% HP barrier base (or, heck, a potency-based barrier with percentile-mitigation while active, so it can snapshot that miti onto the remaining TB damage that breaks it).

[RyuDragnier]

No, I don't, because WAR/PLD have lagged behind GNB/DRK this entire expansion, and WAR in particular was locked out in PF during early Abyssos prog. You know this; you're aware of this and pretending like you weren't is absurd and casts you in a poor light.

I'm pointing out the absolute stupidity of your statement that DRK needs to lose something just for Abyssal Drain's cure potency to be 400 instead of 200. You know, the ability that is an AoE attack that is never used in raids because it shares a cooldown with Carve 'n Spit.