Can we get incentives to be good people? I see this turning into FFXI

[Neptune]

I could have said "Could we get incentives?" but people would think I was asking for something stupidly easy and feel a little uncomfortable about the real thing I"m asking, which is that we get an incentive to be good people.

I was born selfish but also social, like most people.

I think there's one type of person in this world that is truly unselfish, the type of person that works in the medical profession. If you do, props to you because you actually care enough about other people to devote all of your time to it.

For the rest of us, let me just recount some stories from FFXI:

CoP (Airship) (Fight) (Do You Need It?) (Help me out!)

Since I started FFXI @ TOAU I shouted this for 2 years and out of that 2 years I got to attempt the fight about 5 different times before people quit from losing it. When I finally did complete it, it was only because a player was eager to measure his e-peen with the new level cap of 80 or 85. In other words, I was stuck on progression for years and "quit" the game several times thanks to that system.

(Really time-consuming mission that I already did and will probably wipe at for hours because these new people don't know how to do it, and for which there is absolutely no reward for me) (Help me out!)

I shouted about a CoP mission but I have a feeling this is how my shout appeared on their screen.

(Job AF Quest that I already did 3 times for close friends, which I have absolutely no motivation to do and is now being shouted by a stranger) (Help me out!)

(Task that requires me to spend 45 minutes traveling and waiting on other people to show, spend my gil to get there, receive a durability penalty for wiping with the group until they learn the fight, which they may never be skilled enough to learn, and having to use my own gil and dark matter to repair) (Can I have it?) (Help me out!) 1/8

Okay I've made my point. For a certain amount of time after new content is released, like Zilart, CoP, TOAU, AF quests, etc, people are in a race to do it right away and it's easy to swim downstream. After a while the current dries up and all that's left is a few stragglers. I was a straggler in FFXI because I started late, and I'm turning into a jaded douche in FFXIV already because I started early.

What's the incentive to help stragglers in this game? Where is the incentive for me to put my hard earned gil, time, experience, and leadership forth to some straggler or noob when I'm having a consuming enough time using my play time toward progression with drop rates that are intentionally low? Let me spell it out for you. I'm never going to help anyone unless it's a close friend or I like their name or something random, they seem extra nice, or I'm really bored (why would I be logged in then?). And let's not kid ourselves. That's what's been going on in FFXI for 8 years or more. No case study needed.

This was one of the biggest flaws in FFXI and it's looks like no one's noticed that it's going to lock people out of FFXIV. Yes, I'm talking purely about the job quests. There are people that already have to wait an agonizingly long time to do them and they've only been out for a couple weeks. It's going to get much worse as time goes on.

Fortunately, I don't come to ask questions but also to present answers.

Not to get too intellectual about it, but games like WoW don't have this problem since the only group-progression requirements are obsolete through planning with every new patch. Old group content is experienced primarily through the Achievement system in that game, and guess what? Massive amounts of people go through that old content just for the "badge". I really like FFXI's / FFXIV's adventurous group-restricted content. I think it's a great strength for the game to have it, but a great weakness also because it alienates too many customers and forces them to quit the game.

My answer is simple. There should be a reward system that automatically keeps track of completed quest objectives, done in a full group, and the only condition is that someone in the group got the win for the first time. In that condition, a point is created which can be redeemed for something valuable. That's it. One simple change that will turn all of the Selfish Bastards of Eorzea into Kind Caring Doctors With Good Bedside Manner.

You're welcome dev team. If you want me to get more specific I'll be glad to.

Aw, who am I kidding they don't even read the English forum.

[Kanas]

Although the post was a little rough I totally agree. I think giving people a badge might help motivate others to participate in "old" content. However, so far it's been my experience that everyone is very friendly and helped where they could. I do remember FFXI though and not being able to finish content. That was a bummer.

[Zelkelion]

I remember playing FFXI for the first time ever two months ago... people wouldn't even speak to me. That game was so hard!

[Affliction]

I could have said "Could we get incentives?" but people would think I was asking for something stupidly easy and feel a little uncomfortable about the real thing I"m asking, which is that we get an incentive to be good people.

I was born selfish but also social, like most people.

I think there's one type of person in this world that is truly unselfish, the type of person that works in the medical profession. If you do, props to you because you actually care enough about other people to devote all of your time to it.

For the rest of us, let me just recount some stories from FFXI:

CoP (Airship) (Fight) (Do You Need It?) (Help me out!)

Since I started FFXI @ TOAU I shouted this for 2 years and out of that 2 years I got to attempt the fight about 5 different times before people quit from losing it. When I finally did complete it, it was only because a player was eager to measure his e-peen with the new level cap of 80 or 85. In other words, I was stuck on progression for years and "quit" the game several times thanks to that system.

(Really time-consuming mission that I already did and will probably wipe at for hours because these new people don't know how to do it, and for which there is absolutely no reward for me) (Help me out!)

I shouted about a CoP mission but I have a feeling this is how my shout appeared on their screen.

(Job AF Quest that I already did 3 times for close friends, which I have absolutely no motivation to do and is now being shouted by a stranger) (Help me out!)

(Task that requires me to spend 45 minutes traveling and waiting on other people to show, spend my gil to get there, receive a durability penalty for wiping with the group until they learn the fight, which they may never be skilled enough to learn, and having to use my own gil and dark matter to repair) (Can I have it?) (Help me out!) 1/8

Okay I've made my point. For a certain amount of time after new content is released, like Zilart, CoP, TOAU, AF quests, etc, people are in a race to do it right away and it's easy to swim downstream. After a while the current dries up and all that's left is a few stragglers. I was a straggler in FFXI because I started late, and I'm turning into a jaded douche in FFXIV already because I started early.

What's the incentive to help stragglers in this game? Where is the incentive for me to put my hard earned gil, time, experience, and leadership forth to some straggler or noob when I'm having a consuming enough time using my play time toward progression with drop rates that are intentionally low? Let me spell it out for you. I'm never going to help anyone unless it's a close friend or I like their name or something random, they seem extra nice, or I'm really bored (why would I be logged in then?). And let's not kid ourselves. That's what's been going on in FFXI for 8 years or more. No case study needed.

This was one of the biggest flaws in FFXI and it's looks like no one's noticed that it's going to lock people out of FFXIV. Yes, I'm talking purely about the job quests. There are people that already have to wait an agonizingly long time to do them and they've only been out for a couple weeks. It's going to get much worse as time goes on.

Fortunately, I don't come to ask questions but also to present answers.

Not to get too intellectual about it, but games like WoW don't have this problem since the only group-progression requirements are obsolete through planning with every new patch. Old group content is experienced primarily through the Achievement system in that game, and guess what? Massive amounts of people go through that old content just for the "badge". I really like FFXI's / FFXIV's adventurous group-restricted content. I think it's a great strength for the game to have it, but a great weakness also because it alienates too many customers and forces them to quit the game.

My answer is simple. There should be a reward system that automatically keeps track of completed quest objectives, done in a full group, and the only condition is that someone in the group got the win for the first time. In that condition, a point is created which can be redeemed for something valuable. That's it. One simple change that will turn all of the Selfish Bastards of Eorzea into Kind Caring Doctors With Good Bedside Manner.

You're welcome dev team. If you want me to get more specific I'll be glad to.

Aw, who am I kidding they don't even read the English forum.

I enjoyed that, Thanks ^^

[Enfarious]

Yeah at this point in XIV so many people have already completed "this that and the other" that shouting for [pick a quest] can take hours. Of course in this, like in XI if you have a decent linkshell it shouldn't be that hard to get a group together for w/e. If people in your shell[s] don't help, or you aren't willing to help them somethings wrong.

With that said, I do think it'd be a good thing to try to keep old players willing to help complete strangers, and if rewards are the way, then let's get rewards. As a person that can't put in 8~12 hrs a day I fall behind a fair amnt, even friends that started after me have managed to pass me at this point. It's a little sad actually.

Not to mention now the start of my weekend get stuff done time is ????-blocked by maintenance.

[Neptune]

Although the post was a little rough I totally agree.

I can be gentle too.

[Lux_Rayna]

That was a fun read!

That being said, you can't fix stupid. Its true. The situation is hopeless imo. WoW was successful because it made itself so accessible that 5 yr old could probably effectively play it. It held your hands and guided you along a linear pathway to "that raid that drops all the gear you need to be awesome". FFXIV is just not that kinda game, and can't be the kinda game. Even if you add a "bonus" ppl just won't care because the reward for other things (latest dungeon, melding, sbing, crafting, farming) are so much better.

This isn't even touching on the elitism of final fantasy fans in general.

[Enfarious]

That was a fun read!

That being said, you can't fix stupid. Its true. The situation is hopeless imo. WoW was successful because it made itself so accessible that 5 yr old could probably effectively play it. It held your hands and guided you along a linear pathway to "that raid that drops all the gear you need to be awesome". FFXIV is just not that kinda game, and can't be the kinda game. Even if you add a "bonus" ppl just won't care because the reward for other things (latest dungeon, melding, sbing, crafting, farming) are so much better.

This isn't even touching on the elitism of final fantasy fans in general.

Good stuff.
I don't know what you mean about elitism though, "What do you mean you don't have an Aegis finished yet?" lol

[Atoli]

That's why it's so important to find a nice Linkshell in FFXIV.
They will help you out when you can't find enough players for your stuff, help you with strategies, etc.

That being said, I often join random groups to help people out and enjoy a bit of nostalgia
Baby Ifrit, AFs, Toto-Rak..sure, I won't drop my evening-LS-program-party for these, but when I see a shout in Ul'dah and don't have plans in the next 30 min, I join

Incentives might interest a few people into helping, but overall I doubt the FF community is the type to do that.
Like Rayna said - whatever you give people for helping strangers is not as valuable as "playing with my friends only", "being the first on my server to kill XXX", "get drop XY from the newest raid", etc.

[auritribe]

I think there's one type of person in this world that is truly unselfish, the type of person that works in the medical profession.

You're joking, right? I hope you don't sincerely think that all doctors are in the profession because they want to help people.