What are things you ENJOY about Healers right now?

[Renathras]

Excuse you,

Right, no antagonism at all. <_<

In case no one explains why people are responding to you like you're troll, I'll reply.

Dude, I've been posting here for over a year. People treated me as a troll from the moment I suggested that even one Healer remain as it is (PvE kits) and it hasn't changed since. New evolutions or reasons to add to the bucket don't change the fact that the bucket was wrong to begin with, and if you guys think I'm a troll, you don't know what a troll is.

However, the way you phrased your response denies shield healers as "actual healers" in your definition, but as "supports".

In PvE?

This post - that I didn't reply to and think I missed?

Just confirming. Does that mean that because a shield healer's primary goal is not to heal flat hp, but apply support utility such as shields / mitigation to ensure the party lives through damage through preventative means, you don't think healers like SCH and SGE are considered healers?

How can you take a non-replied to post as a statement? o.O

You, entirely literally in this case, have to invent words and put them into my mouth to present your current position that I said Barrier Healers in PvE are not Healers. Can you show me where in this statement - since it seems to be the basis of your claim - that I said "Barrier Healers are not Healers"?

What makes a Healer is that they are and focus on HEALING. This should be a tautology as it's in the name. This is distinct from a Support which is focused across domains of damage dealing, buffing, debuffing, healing, and other utility (like run speed) and act in a Supporting role, which can include healing people but also swinging over to DPS down an enemy or buffing/debuffing/utility to ensure their team can do so. If that's the kind of gameplay you like, then Support roles/Jobs/classes are right up your alley.

I even made sure to add to it - the part you left out which clarifies the position:

If the focus is on dealing damage, then it's not a Healer. It might not be outright a Damage Dealer/DPS if the focus is on support buffing, debuffing, crowd control, etc...but it isn't a Healer at that point, it's a Support.

Why DID you leave this part out, btw?

So notice what I listed, support buffing (I didn't say shielding or mitigation; if you notice, I tend to list those as their own category of thing which is under the domain of both Healers and/or Tanks in a lot of games, though in this game even DPS have some), debuffing, crowd contrrol, etc. I didn't mention shields, shield healing, or barrier healers in any capacity, yet you're presuming I did because you did, and when I didn't answer (because I didn't see the post), drawing conclusions about me saying things that I...didn't actually say; indeed, in this case, I literally said nothing and you interpreted nothing as "Barrier Healers in PvE aren't Healers" somehow. Can you see how that might be a mistake on your part, by chance?

Hell, I even used YOUR terms of offensive and defensive support.

Your response is not only a classification challenge to at least 3 PvP healers, but an affront to the existing classification of PvE shield healers,

HOW??

I literally didn't make a statement at all on the matter and it's somehow a statement? How is a person not saying something equivalent in your mind to them making an ironclad declarative statement?

For the record, if I were to respond to that post, I would say the following:

"All Healers in PvE right now are focused by kit and function on healing. With few exceptions, most mitigation abilities in the game have a healing component, either directly (Adloquium, Succor, Sacred Soil, Seraphic Veil, Consolation, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Intersection, Neutral Sect, Exaltation, Eukrasian Diagnosis, Eukrasian Prognosis, Kerachole, Taurochole, and Holos) or indirectly by increasing healing (Temperance, Fey Illumination, Protraction), of the top of my head. The only ones that don't do this are WHM's Divine Benison and Aquaveil (but WHM isn't a Barrier Healer, so it's a moot point), Expedient, Haima, and Panhaima (and these last two are debatable since they do provide healing at the end if there are any shield stacks left over at the end of the duration). Setting that aside, SCH and SGE both have massive amounts of raw healing throughput to turn empty HP bars into full HP bars, and they are used either as the components that are part of their mitigation buttons (Sacred Soil/Kerachole's HoT, Holos' direct AOE heal) or as part of their expansive oGCD healing suit. Indeed, one of the classic and consistent complaints here is that Healer Jobs in FFXIV are not focused on DPS and that DPS abilities seem to be filler afterthought for the purposes of soloing more than anything, with even SGE having a very unsatisfying DPS kit."

(Seriously, the common refrain here is that the Devs designed the Healer kits for damage that the game doesn't output to justify them, and with DPS as such an afterthought that it's dreadfully boring to many of the posters here because of how unfocused and "filler" it is.)

Meaning by the above definition you quoted me having said, SCH and SGE in PvE are "focused on healing". SCH has exactly one debuff used on CD, so it's not a focus of the Job and has no interactivity with the rest of the kit, AST has offensive support buffs but is very strongly a Healer, and probably the most powerful one in the game with tools that massively fill empty HP bars including party-Benediction Macrocosmos, and SGE is healing with literally every action they take, even their damage spells.

So not only did I not say what you claim and are using as justification for the attacks, what I did say can't be used to support your conclusion that you imagined me saying.

I didn't "pretty much provoke everyone who plays" SCH and SGE. For one thing, I main SCH! The people "provoked" where the people who are perpetually provoked at me for breathing at this point.

I asked for confirmation to give you the benefit of the doubt that this is not what you meant so you can clarify the misunderstanding,

And then assumed that, instead of a short post at the bottom of a page in an active thread being missed, I confirmed your belief that isn't even consistent with the thing I had just said that you've twisted?

How is "I asked you to clarify, and then assumed the worst" a good faith giving of benefit of doubt, exactly?

you provoked others by continuously bringing up the point of why your post wasn't acceptable in a thread about things healers enjoyed

I wasn't "provoking" anyone. I was stating my opinion in a thread about opinions, and to explain what I DID like about AST in PvP. My GOD...

and doubled down on the idea that those healers are "supports" rather than healers.

In PvE or PvP?

Not PvE, since we weren't TALKING ABOUT PvE.

In PvP, I presented AST as an example of the one that felt like a Healer to me and why I felt that.

Your post seems to be saying "Ren, you are not allowed to have an opinion, or if you do, you are not allowed to state it because someone might be provoked by it."

I'm "provoked" by most of the things you guys say, but clearly that doesn't prevent you from saying it nor is there a collective soul searching and chastising of each other for saying those things. I've even presented people being passive aggressive sarcastic in this thread and someone calling me a troll (how is that not "provoking", exactly?), and instead of chastising people doing that, you defend and justify ACTUAL and direct provocation, on the grounds of imagined slight justifying ACTUAL slight. In what way does that make sense in your mind?

Having to invent words to put into someone's mouth, to then use to justify ongoing assaults on this person, that predated said words that they did not even say, and would be going on regardless of said words being said (which weren't even said) is just so far beyond the pale at this point, I'm honestly aghast. I thought this subforum was bad, but I think this may actually be a new...

This is not any indication of good faith in...

Oh my god.

I just can't even with this post anymore.
I'm sorry.