Are there any plans to fix the 'Haurchefant' localization?

[Telkira]

>art
It’s a video game, and an mmo at that. The localisation is done in house so it’s not even as if they’re sending it out to a third party.
Also why is discomfort not the reaction you’d expect from it not being a comedic device? It’s not enough to warrant death is it?

>implying video games are not art
>implying that the narrative, aesthetic, and other expressive elements are magically precluded from being art
I shiggy diggy

And what does it matter if the localization is done in-house? It's still something that they can be criticized for, especially if it's so egregious. Changing/altering the content to satisfy perceived offense is literally censorship. They shouldn't have to, and are not obligated to satisfy or staid the irrationalities and insecurities of a foreign audience. Failure to appreciate is not a reason to suppress.

In spite of all of the things I adamantly dislike about the FFXIV localization, with all the unnecessary flavortext and word choice that changes the mood/tone of certain things (in addition to turning reading dialog in-game into a chore because there's too much text), adapting jokes/references to Western ones, etc it's still a better job since they DO in fact work with the writers in order to keep it ultimately the same experience. There's a good-faith effort to ensure that the initial vision of the creators and writers are kept, as opposed to simply removing or changing things that would offend others or be perceived as politically incorrect.

But even though it's serviceable, I would still prefer to have a direct translated option.

[Telkira]

"censorship good if it's something I dislike"

Pretty much. I'd rather see something for what it is, than be exposed to a watered down version of it. Nothing pisses me off more than being told what I can and can't see, hear, read, write, say, or draw because it would be inconvenient to someone else.

Had I known that this type of censorship was present in the game, I can't say that I would have purchased the game. Censorship is a genuine deal-breaker, I never want to feel insecure or not confident that what I'm experiencing is not sincere or true.

I love art. I love expression. I love being able to resonate with whatever it is I'm reading, watching, or playing, being exposed to someone else's vision. Deviations or alterations from that can be felt, and ruin the experience.

If Mr. Crow hadn't made that post formally apologizing for it all and acknowledging the mistakes they had made, I probably wouldn't have opted to renew my sub, and would have taken my money elsewhere.

[DayHealer]

>implying video games are not art
>implying that the narrative, aesthetic, and other expressive elements are magically precluded from being art
I shiggy diggy

And what does it matter if the localization is done in-house? It's still something that they can be criticized for, especially if it's so egregious. Changing/altering the content to satisfy perceived offense is literally censorship. They shouldn't have to, and are not obligated to satisfy or staid the irrationalities and insecurities of a foreign audience. Failure to appreciate is not a reason to suppress.

In spite of all of the things I adamantly dislike about the FFXIV localization, with all the unnecessary flavortext and word choice that changes the mood/tone of certain things (in addition to turning reading dialog in-game into a chore because there's too much text), adapting jokes/references to Western ones, etc it's still a better job since they DO in fact work with the writers in order to keep it ultimately the same experience. There's a good-faith effort to ensure that the initial vision of the creators and writers are kept, as opposed to simply removing or changing things that would offend others or be perceived as politically incorrect.

But even though it's serviceable, I would still prefer to have a direct translated option.

But the point of a game like FFXIV is exactly to be serviceable, this is not a classic book that you can't change anything on the translation otherwise it loses its initial flavour, this is a multiplayer videogame, and a worlwide one at it that exist to appeal most audiences.
Since the initial writers didnt have any problem with the change due to localization being made in-house, I really dont see why a small part of the community outrages about it other than japanese obsession. Like they say.. live and let live.

In case someone want an example of japanese Haurchefant this is a translation of a quest. Up to you if you like or dislike it.

[Telkira]

But the point of a game like FFXIV is exactly to be serviceable, this is not a classic book that you can't change anything on the translation otherwise it loses its initial flavour, this is a multiplayer videogame, and a worlwide one at it that exist to appeal most audiences.
Since the initial writers didnt have any problem with the change due to localization being made in-house, I really dont see why a small part of the community outrages about it other than japanese obsession. Like they say.. live and let live.

In case someone want an example of japanese Haurchefant this is a translation of a quest. Up to you if you like or dislike it.

It's still a Japanese product, and attempting to water that down or 'enhance' it literally ruins the experience. I've plugged various dialog and text items into DeepL just to see how different things are, and it's astonishing how much is lost by all the excess flavortext.

Look at this right here.




This is an NPC that stands outside of Gridania.
His sole purpose is to give a little bit of exposition and add flavor to the world. I genuinely don't understand why his dialog in the ENG version is so wordy, literally the DeepL translation of his JP text gives you everything you need to know about this, but without threatening overtone that is not echoed throughout the rest of the city, which is very friendly towards you and other adventurers. Why the death threat?? Is that really necessary??

I cannot tell you how much I hate this. I've had people who speak Japanese look at this very thing just to make sure DeepL was accurate and they agree with me that it's unnecessary to deviate from this.

Oh, and this isn't the only one either. There are countless other instances where the central point is the same, but this added flavor drastically changes the tone of the dialog and makes it feel out-of-place. It felt like the localizers were just looking at the script and trying to invent ways to alter the text, whereas the Japanese text is very direct and the atmosphere of the game lets you fill in the rest.

And again - it's not a small part of the community. It's a rather large part, but colonialism and braindead Western sentiments tend to present the illusion that they're a minority. My point is that it genuinely ruins the vision, and the fact that people respond with sheer hostility at this shows that there's something obscenely disingenuous about their position. Do they not like being exposed to the truth? That Koji Fox's jokes and reference replacements really aren't that good? That the Japanese version actually is better and they want to sequester themselves to a delusion that everything is fine, so they just conform to it until artistic integrity becomes an afterthought?

And finally - THANK YOU for posting the Haurchefant script! THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER! It is objectively more well-written and just feels natural.

[fulminating]

>implying video games are not art
>implying that the narrative, aesthetic, and other expressive elements are magically precluded from being art
I shiggy diggy

And what does it matter if the localization is done in-house? It's still something that they can be criticized for, especially if it's so egregious. Changing/altering the content to satisfy perceived offense is literally censorship. They shouldn't have to, and are not obligated to satisfy or staid the irrationalities and insecurities of a foreign audience. Failure to appreciate is not a reason to suppress.

In spite of all of the things I adamantly dislike about the FFXIV localization, with all the unnecessary flavortext and word choice that changes the mood/tone of certain things (in addition to turning reading dialog in-game into a chore because there's too much text), adapting jokes/references to Western ones, etc it's still a better job since they DO in fact work with the writers in order to keep it ultimately the same experience. There's a good-faith effort to ensure that the initial vision of the creators and writers are kept, as opposed to simply removing or changing things that would offend others or be perceived as politically incorrect.

But even though it's serviceable, I would still prefer to have a direct translated option.

What makes them art? It's pretty clearly a vehicle to generate revenue for the producing company to the point that the first iteration of ff14 was withdrawn and is unavailable entirely because of the negative impact.

As a parallel, what's the name of 617 squadron's dog. You cannot tell me that localising that for a film with an american audience is not a sensible monetary decision. Why is haurchefant being unpalatable to the target audience of people who may pay monthly any different? The easy solution for you is to just play in japanese if it's so essential to have an unadulterated experience.

[Saraide]

Amazing how OP still thinks their taste the universal truth. I understand you would like JP haurchefant more. I wouldnt. Other people in this thread told you they wouldnt.

[Telkira]

What makes them art? It's pretty clearly a vehicle to generate revenue for the producing company to the point that the first iteration of ff14 was withdrawn and is unavailable entirely because of the negative impact.

Being a product for profit does not disqualify something from being regarded as 'art'.
What makes something art is a ponderous question for many, but objectively, for something to be regarded as 'art' it must have artistic value, which is defined as any deliberate form of human expression that appeals to, or resonates, emotional feelings and sentiments or aesthetics. It can be shallow, it can be vague, it can even be offensive or vulgar, but the fact that it is expressive and/or invokes a reaction makes it art. Even sexually explicit media, designed to titillate sexual feelings, is considered a valid artistic purpose.

People who say something is not art tend to be proven wrong.

As a parallel, what's the name of 617 squadron's dog. You cannot tell me that localising that for a film with an american audience is not a sensible monetary decision. Why is haurchefant being unpalatable to the target audience of people who may pay monthly any different? The easy solution for you is to just play in japanese if it's so essential to have an unadulterated experience.

You know, some people would disregard this question on the basis that one is raunchy/silly humor in a cartoony fantasy game made in Japan and one is a historical account involving the name of a black dog.
And generally, I stood with those who wanted historical accuracy over revisionism/censorship of the name, with the only thing necessary to save face with the public being a disclaimer at the beginning.

I would much rather see them take the same approach that Time Warner took by placing a disclaimer at the beginning of Looney Tunes, whereby they stand with their commitment to preservation, notwithstanding the dismay of those who would object for socio-political clout.

[fulminating]

That's all very well, but SE is a multidollar for-profit company and artistic integrity is not going to carry as much weight as more money, particularly after the utter disaster that was the first attempt at the game. 2.0 had to appeal to people and generate revenue or SE was going to go under.

[Telkira]

Amazing how OP still thinks their taste the universal truth. I understand you would like JP haurchefant more. I wouldnt. Other people in this thread told you they wouldnt.

Matters of preference are not truth. My opinion just happens to have more weight than those who would disagree. I've pointed out all of the issues with it, yet all people seem to care about is this watered-down non-canonical parody that wasn't even supposed to exist in the first place.

I wouldn't be so bothered if the decision to change Haurchefant were one that was actually handled by the team in a proper manner, and not zealous localizers who think it's their job to protect culture from problematic media. There's a reason why they get so much flakk on Twitter and elsewhere when changes to media are made, it's rightly deserved criticism and Japanese companies would do right to consider the cultural divide that's being cultivated by these problematic and censorious decisions and simply not work with colonialists.

As noted earlier, there's a very clear cultural divide between myself and others like me and the Westernized fans. The 'subs vs. dubs' camp, the pro-vs-anti varieties, etc. The only thing you have going for you is this delusion that localizing vs. translating would be a better business decision, when that's not the case at all. You people would still consume it because that's what you do. Your positions and your reasons for having them are indicative of a level of socio-conformitive passivity that you refuse to challenge, which leaves me unable to see any degree of merit in your positions above simply having a different opinion.

[Saraide]

Matters of preference are not truth. My opinion just happens to have more weight than those who would disagree. I've pointed out all of the issues with it, yet all people seem to care about is this watered-down non-canonical parody that wasn't even supposed to exist in the first place.

I wouldn't be so bothered if the decision to change Haurchefant were one that was actually handled by the team in a proper manner, and not zealous localizers who think it's their job to protect culture from problematic media. There's a reason why they get so much flakk on Twitter and elsewhere when changes to media are made, it's rightly deserved criticism and Japanese companies would do right to consider the cultural divide that's being cultivated by these problematic and censorious decisions and simply not work with colonialists.

As noted earlier, there's a very clear cultural divide between myself and others like me and the Westernized fans. The 'subs vs. dubs' camp, the pro-vs-anti varieties, etc. The only thing you have going for you is this delusion that localizing vs. translating would be a better business decision, when that's not the case at all. You people would still consume it because that's what you do. Your positions and your reasons for having them are indicative of a level of socio-conformitive passivity that you refuse to challenge, which leaves me unable to see any degree of merit in your positions above simply having a different opinion.

I've never seen someone so openly proud about being arrogant on this forum.