YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[dspguy]

Then I guess I'm toxic. Unlike DPS and Healing roles, Tanks have it the easiest that they're practically getting carried by everyone. All they gotta do is AoE and pop mitigations and they're the perfect Tank. All dungeons play out the same with the only difference being boss fights.

Make a pre-made without a tank. Problem solved. No carries.

[Jojoya]

Then I guess I'm toxic. Unlike DPS and Healing roles, Tanks have it the easiest that they're practically getting carried by everyone. All they gotta do is AoE and pop mitigations and they're the perfect Tank. All dungeons play out the same with the only difference being boss fights.

ARR dungeons it's fine to go slow, but once you're at 50 to (and especially) 90, maybe it's time to go w2w.

Honestly, I don't want someone who picked up GNB as their first tank job 2 hours ago to be trying to wall to wall in Ghimlyt Dark. I really don't.

You can't dump every player with the same expectations because there are different paths to get to the same place. Some will have more experience. Some will have much less.

As for tanks being carried by everyone else, I promise that's not always the case. Skill and experience are still a factor, and a competent tank should have no problem soloing most dungeon fights when the rest of the party dies. Other roles don't have the mitigation or toolkit to be able to do that at higher levels.

[dspguy]

When it comes to wall-to-wall pulls, I keep in mind the context. If it is roulette (which is likely the only reason I'd run any of this content), you get what you get. Many tanks go wall to wall, some don't. Some party members aren't AOEing. But that's why we get an exp bonus and/or tomes and other goodies.

Just be grateful we don't have to shout in Jeuno...er... Limsa for a party every day to do a dungeon or trial.

[Ayan_Calvesse]

That's fine, but pulling as a dps or healer is not griefing (main point of the OP), unlike refusing to grab the aggro from dps or healer. Besides, there's plenty of tools for tanks and healers to use to handle big pulls with ease. Tanks who prefer small pulls for whatever reason have options such as trust, or letting their party know from the start since it's usually the norm to do wall to wall pulls. It's simply just a you problem at that point if you're refusing to cooperate with your team and use extra cooldowns if one of your party members happen to pull.

I disagree. The tank chooses what he feels he can take. A excellent example of this is many of the "hard" duties where many tanks often overpull due to their missing class kit abilities. If you wish to pull mobs then simply play tank; that options is open to everyone. the fundamental difference is this.

If I refuse to grab mobs that you decide to pull then I am making a choice.
If you try to FORCE me to grab mobs that you are choosing to pull; you are REMOVING my ability to make a choice.

A good example would be like arbitrarily deciding that DPS are griefing if their damage is not high enough; just as some people get upset that the pulls are not fast enough; I've been in plenty of runs where DPS is so bad that fights take x2/x3 times longer. That can also be determined simply by seeing how many times you see the mechanics. "Well I saw 3 tank busters which means we took too long; so DPS is clearly griefing"

So a tank choosing the pace at which they perform their own role is no different then a DPS playing the class with the rotation they are comfortable with. While it may very well be sub-optimal; its the reality that not everyone is some great player. I will always stand with the decision that allows players to make choices rather then be forced into them. A Tank that is forced to grab mobs that someone is choosing to pull is being denied the ability to take on what they are comfortable with; the same arguement goes for tanks that overpull when the healer cannot keep up healing (yet almost no one ever blames shitty healers).

So Tanks will take what they want to tank; their function is to pull threat on mobs so that the group can progress; the better the tank the less healing they need and the faster those pulls happen and the more damage they contribute to clearing the mobs.
DPS job is to reduce the health of mobs; the better they do that the faster those pulls will happen.
Healers job is to increase the health of their allies while also potentially reducing the duration of the pull by contributing to clearing the mobs.

None of those functions are "mandatory" by the actions of someone other then yourself.

[Ayan_Calvesse]

Then I guess I'm toxic. Unlike DPS and Healing roles, Tanks have it the easiest that they're practically getting carried by everyone. All they gotta do is AoE and pop mitigations and they're the perfect Tank. All dungeons play out the same with the only difference being boss fights.

ARR dungeons it's fine to go slow, but once you're at 50 to (and especially) 90, maybe it's time to go w2w.

Respectfully,
There are plenty of situations where that is really not the case; Doman Castle is a good example where some tank classes can get easily killed if they overpull unless the healer is on the spot. All DPs needs to do is a rotation, All the healer needs to do is top everyone off. So by your logic the Tank is actually the most complex given they have twice as many tasks they need to actually concern themselves with according to what I would consider a gross oversimplification.

All the classes have a fair bit of wiggle room that will distinguish a good player of the role from a bad one; stuff like interrupts; using the right CD for the right situation; using unique class functions to prevent a wipe are all examples of this. I will not disagree that the general bar for entry to "pass" the content is pretty low; but that applies to all the roles and not only the tank - hell I've seen so many cases where healers in Dead Ends for example did not heal the DPS during the last boss which resulted in said DPS dying due to the sheer volume of unavoidable AOE damage that the boss puts out.

[Renkyrie]

You can not physically pull more than a group can handle either.

Have you done Anamnesis Anyder? Because if you run your group from the 2nd last boss to just before the final boss, there are no walls. You can pull from start to finish. If you run with a full team through all of that, it also means it will spawn extra adds because you are supposed to kill mobs before they finish summoning. If you let them summon by just sprinting to the end, not only will you have like 6 packs to kill, you'll also have every extra summoned creature. Unless you have the best dungeon party in the game, there is no possible way to actually beat this many enemies.

So yes, you can physically pull more than a group can handle

[Frizze]

So yes, you can physically pull more than a group can handle

You vastly overestimate how hard this pull is. When it was current content roughly 1/3 of the groups i was in went for the full pull, about half stopped at the summoners, and the remainder were single pullers. But i needed a level 80 dungeon for Khloe this week, so i pulled up duty support. I stopped during this section to take notes, but i was double pulling for most of the dungeon. So, the final stretch of Anamnesis. There are 4 groups not 6. The first is 3 standard enemies toward the top of the ramp. The second group is 2 summoners. If you let them finish both summons you wind up with 4 monsters(the NPCs with no help from me were only 1 good attack from killing one of these summoners and spoiling my data set) 1 big one from the near crystal and 3 small from the far. Halfway to the exit here you come across 3 more standard mobs. And in front of the exit to the area are the final 3 summoners. I was able to trick the NPCs into not killing a summoner, and the result was 5 more(3 smalls from the center crystal, 2 bigs from the outer ones). But before you say "20 mobs! see! far too many", this isnt how the pull actually works. If you sprint through to the last group and start tossing out the AoEs you have only 6 active NPCs fighting you, with 3 summoners mixed in and 2 summoners left in your dust. Any normal group should have 1 or 2 of the final summoners stopped, and the regular mobs mostly dead by the time the group you left behind catches up. Tank tosses a couple AoEs into the newly summoned mobs to get everything in order, and the fight ends shortly thereafter. Requires "the best dungeon party in the game'"? Hardly.

[Asari5]

so... is it alright for healers to stand around for 50% of the time and do nothing because its too stressfull to switch targets and throw a dot here and there?

is it alright for dps to not use their off global cooldowns because its to stressful to use skills more often then every 2.5 second?

because when the tank slacks off i gonna do so as well... and its not gonna be fun for the group losing that much time and for the tank to run out of mitigation.

[Post]

One time, in Heavensward, I ran Sohr Khai as a BLM and did everything in my rotation perfect... except every time I was meant to cast Fire IV, I casted a cross-classed Ruin.

I entered and maintained Astral Fire III. I applied Thunder. I refreshed Enochian with Blizzard IV. I maneuvered around using Swiftcast and Aetherial Manipulation, but instead of spending every free GCD casting my 508 potency spell, I casted an 80 potency one instead.

I wanted to see what the group would say. They didn't say anything. They probably didn't notice. Even got a comm. I got bored and felt bad, and never did it again.

Pretending that I had a point and didn't just want to share a silly story, most people won't notice a dps screwing with the party like until they're comfortable enough that they can see beyond their own tunnel vision, but it's really noticeable when a tank refuses to tank. It's noticeable, but it doesn't prevent your group from succeeding without their help.

[Mistress_Irika]

This type of attitude is why I started to bring actual potions in case I have to do old content.

Most of the time I have seen tanks over pulling to where they die, because the healer isn't that good. There are rare instances where other people pull ahead of the tank, and the tank still dies mainly being due to being undergeared...either way, I bring potions and have my second wind ready, because I don't feel like starting over. Situation is usually better if I'm a melee due to bloodbath.

Don't know why this is still a thing. If you're a tank and you don't like other people pulling for you just quit. You won't have to deal with it longer, and it'll be someone else's problem.