Relic News - 6.45

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

When you put it that way, that i625 weapon sounded more like a relic than the current manderville(s) lol.

[ForteNightshade]

Great so you have content that you like doing. I'm honestly not seeing the problem. Even the one you pointed out of longevity. All content in this game has an end point. Are you upset that you reached it? Why? What's the point of trying to achieve something if you never get to the achievement part? Also if your ability to use the forums is not a reason to be subbed then it's an irrelevant thing to bring up at all. I like using the forums, but my sole focus for my sub is the game. I stand by what I said. If you pay your sub for forum use, that's an enormous waste of money. If you don't do that then you brought up something that doesn't matter for....reasons?

You're not seeing the problem because you missed the point. That one piece of content which is being stretched incredibly thin across 10+ months only exists because of a third party website/tool the dev team actively dislike. Think about that. It isn't the content itself having any sort of replayability on its own but a secondary source outside of the game giving it one. Now, of course, battle content is finite is every game. However, most games have enough to last a decent length of time relative to both the genre and expected longevity. FFXIV doesn't. And the alternative content it does offer has no longevity. Which brings us back to the other point you missed: people, myself included, want more to do than one or two things.

V/C Dungeons, Island Sanctuary and Relics are all content that had/has absolutely zero staying power this expansion either due to lackluster rewards, poor implementation or a combination of both. To answer your question, I'm not "upset" I reached some arbitrary goal I never made for myself, I'm disappointed every other piece of content has no longevity so that I have more alternative things to partake in than log farming.

You realize there's a lot of people that do actually like the way the relics work in this expansion right? You realize there's a lot of people that didn't like the way it worked in previous expansions right? Am I not allowed to be happy that the content for relics is something that I actually enjoy? Assuming you liked Bozja and Eureka then you got 2 expansions that appealed to you. Why is it suddenly a problem that it now appeals to a different aspect of the player-base?

I never said you couldn't like it. Just expect people are going to disagree with you, especially when your argument hinges entirely on "so I can play other games." Which, by the way, is a completely fine mindset to have. The problem arises when you're upset because other people want more reasons to play this game. In fact, to better illustrate this point, let's create a new relic step come 7.0

We'll go back to the Exploratory Zone and toss in all sorts of ways to progress the relic, some grindy, some not. Make it all a little more involved than Bozja but with some quirks like an actual hunting log or quests relating to that zone. We'll even toss in some bonuses on the relics ala Hydatos exclusive to the zones themselves to give players who want that little extra power something to achieve. We'll cap this off with a Baldesion/Delebrum type raid, albeit with a better queuing systems.

Now here's the caveat. Unlike the lackluster futureproofing both Eureka and Bozja have, we'll make it so you can purchase a replica of every step via tomes sometime during 8.x. In other words, we'll use the EW method for futureproofing.

Everyone gets what they want, right? You have all the time in the world to play different games, especially if you'd rather just wait until the replicas release while players who like the Exploratory Zones get to grind things out. Oh, you don't want to wait to tackle content and feel like in this hypothetical you'll have nothing to do during 7.0? Welcome to how the rest of us feel right now.

The problem people seemingly like to ignore when arguing how they prefer a simple method like tome farming so they can play other games or due to having twelve jobs and eighteen kids is those who want to play FFXIV have less content. You can simply choose not to do <insert content> like Bozja if it doesn't appeal. Or wait for the eventual nerfs to make progression faster. The rest of us don't have a choice this expansion. There just isn't anything else to do. If we opted out of the relic... well, we get even less despite wanting to play FFXIV.

[Xirean]

Now here's the caveat. Unlike the lackluster futureproofing both Eureka and Bozja have, we'll make it so you can purchase a replica of every step via tomes sometime during 8.x. In other words, we'll use the EW method for futureproofing.

Everyone gets what they want, right? You have all the time in the world to play different games, especially if you'd rather just wait until the replicas release while players who like the Exploratory Zones get to grind things out. Oh, you don't want to wait to tackle content and feel like in this hypothetical you'll have nothing to do during 7.0? Welcome to how the rest of us feel right now.

Actually the only issue that I would have in that system is that this replica is in the next expansion rather than the same expansion the relic was released in like all other relics. Unless you meant it differently. Relics tend to not want to go in the darn glamour dresser so we usually need to get the replica item that becomes available immediately after finishing a step. If the system you discuss still allows that while allowing for a completely separate replica obtainment method then I'd have zero issue. This isn't some kind of gotcha. I stand by what I said many times earlier. If the game isn't fun then people should take a break until they have something to come back to. I didn't play Eureka or Bozja till much much later. Long after their relevance had expired and only because I wanted TT cards from them. I still haven't done the last zone of Eureka or progressed either expansions relics passed the first stage or two because the method was just stupid to me. So I ignored it completely and took a break.

I get wanting more things to do in the game. What I don't understand is how the formula for the game is a surprise to you. It's always had content droughts. Why is the suggestion of "take a break" such an issue?

Actually lets say this. Would I be happy if there were more activities in the game that appealed to me that I could spend my time on? Yes. Do I expect the content formula to change in order to get that? No. I expect things to be released that mean nothing to me but mean something to other people. I'll just not engage with that stuff and play when I have something I like. What is the problem with that? It sounds like you just want busy work to keep you stuck in the game near permanently. Is that actually what you want? If so, why?

[Deo14]

Actually the only issue that I would have in that system is that this replica is in the next expansion rather than the same expansion the relic was released in like all other relics. Unless you meant it differently. Relics tend to not want to go in the darn glamour dresser so we usually need to get the replica item that becomes available immediately after finishing a step. If the system you discuss still allows that while allowing for a completely separate replica obtainment method then I'd have zero issue. This isn't some kind of gotcha. I stand by what I said many times earlier. If the game isn't fun then people should take a break until they have something to come back to. I didn't play Eureka or Bozja till much much later. Long after their relevance had expired and only because I wanted TT cards from them. I still haven't done the last zone of Eureka or progressed either expansions relics passed the first stage or two because the method was just stupid to me. So I ignored it completely and took a break.

I get wanting more things to do in the game. What I don't understand is how the formula for the game is a surprise to you. It's always had content droughts. Why is the suggestion of "take a break" such an issue?

Actually lets say this. Would I be happy if there were more activities in the game that appealed to me that I could spend my time on? Yes. Do I expect the content formula to change in order to get that? No. I expect things to be released that mean nothing to me but mean something to other people. I'll just not engage with that stuff and play when I have something I like. What is the problem with that? It sounds like you just want busy work to keep you stuck in the game near permanently. Is that actually what you want? If so, why?

What are you even talking about? You don't make replica, you make relic. You do actual progression at expansion, and next expansion you buy that relic for tomes, simple concept and great idea (but any idea is better than current tome dump tbf). Obtaining relic logically unlocks replicas in both cases.

And yes, people should take a break when there is nothing to do, but EW has crossed a lot of people's line of what content cadence is acceptable. Week of content per 4.5 months is simply not enough, that's the end of it. Content droughts are normal, but compared to other expansions, we have objectively less content. And no, 3 kinds of one and done content does not even remotely compare to content like Eureka and Bozja. Especially since SB also had DD and ShB had Ishgard restoration, while also having shorter patch cycles.

Meanwhile, what does EW have?
- 4.5 months patch cycles
- IS which you do solo and complete in 2 weeks, while spending 20mins per day here. After that, you're down to 3 mins per week. It's not even good in a first place, it's essentially one big excel spreadsheet simulator. Except excel is easy to work with, while in IS, you can't even open all the necessary windows to find best item for workshop, so people just copy paste it from discord.
- V&C which is great, but completely missed the mark by not having any real rewards tied to it. Died in a week. Please look forward to better rewards next patch! (more materia)
- EO which is just DD. Nothing else, nothing more. Reskin and slightly changed pommanders, that's it.
- Alternative tome weapons (formerly known as relics) which you just buy for tomes after doing some daily roulettes, which you would do anyway.

So to give you shorter answer - formula haven't changed, but the variables did. As a result, droughts are significantly longer and much dryer.

[Xirean]

What are you even talking about?

I was responding to ForteNightshade and trying to fully understand the presented idea.

So to give you shorter answer - formula haven't changed, but the variables did. As a result, droughts are significantly longer and much dryer.

Then take a longer break.....

[dspguy]

And yes, people should take a break when there is nothing to do

This is a problem of player expectations and perception - not a problem with the game itself. Expecting to be entertained with new content at all times from a game (console, MMO, etc) is not reasonable.

[Deo14]

I was responding to ForteNightshade and trying to fully understand the presented idea.

Then sorry for responding for him/her, but this is public space. Idea was well said, seemed that you were just confused with some pointless details like replicas.

Then take a longer break.....

This is a problem of player expectations and perception - not a problem with the game itself. Expecting to be entertained with new content at all times from a game (console, MMO, etc) is not reasonable.

These breaks will have to be ~2 months at a time. 6.X0 release, play for a week -> don't play for next 2 months -> 6.X5 releases, play for a week -> don't play for a next 2 months. You didn't feel like playing at 6.25/6.35 release? Too bad, V&C/EO is now dead, maybe show up on time next time.

Nobody expects to be entertained 24/7. But having at least 3 months of content per year seems very reasonable for subscription-based MMORPG, made by one of the largest gaming corpo.

[Xirean]

Then sorry for responding for him/her, but this is public space. Idea was well said, seemed that you were just confused with some pointless details like replicas.

I'm sorry my questions seem pointless to you.

These breaks will have to be ~2 months at a time. 6.X0 release, play for a week -> don't play for next 2 months -> 6.X5 releases, play for a week -> don't play for a next 2 months. You didn't feel like playing at 6.25/6.35 release? Too bad, V&C/EO is now dead, maybe show up on time next time.

Nobody expects to be entertained 24/7. But having at least 3 months of content per year seems very reasonable for subscription-based MMORPG, made by one of the largest gaming corpo.

Again "take a break" is not a defense of the company. If you're not having fun with the product, why keep paying for it? If you're not getting what you want out of it, why financially support content/release decisions that upset you? Also for context, when I take a break from this game, it's usually 6+ months at a time. When I return, I play till I've run out of new stuff to do then put my account back on hibernation. I never expect this game to hold my attention for a full expansion's lifespan. How could it?

[Theodric]

That's kinda the only option. If you have nothing to do then why pay to do nothing?

Edit: Why people think "take a break" is a defense of the game is still extremely confusing.

It's because, historically, it's been used to try and get people to stop offering feedback altogether. You can only post on the forum if you have logged into the game within a two week period. That only happens if you have an active subscription or, like me, you're only posting temporarily due to the free login campaign.

Many people can and do take breaks, yet when they return they find the same problems persist and in their absence the people who don't take breaks have vocally demanded that the game change to their liking. Which is precisely why the game became less of an MMO and more of a weird Second Life clone over time.

Some people would also prefer not to lose their house, since it's unlikely they'll acquire a new one if they lose it. This, in turn, is due to the housing system in itself being terrible - especially when you can own multiple account bound houses in TESO and take breaks for weeks, months or even years without losing those houses.

Then there's people who still find some enjoyment from FFXIV but aren't oblivious to its problems.

Furthermore, the monthly subscription fee isn't exactly a lot of money to some people and it's ultimately their money to do with as they so choose so the concern over 'wasting money' often comes across as disingenuous.

[Deo14]

Again "take a break" is not a defense of the company. If you're not having fun with the product, why keep paying for it? If you're not getting what you want out of it, why financially support content/release decisions that upset you? Also for context, when I take a break from this game, it's usually 6+ months at a time. When I return, I play till I've run out of new stuff to do then put my account back on hibernation. I never expect this game to hold my attention for a full expansion's lifespan. How could it?

I don't want to lose my house, that's the first thing. Secondly, I don't get why are people getting impressions that people that are unhappy with EW's low standards hate the game. I love the game, I still play it, have fun and find some old stuff to do, it's just that doing old content gets old pretty fast. Nobody is demanding 24/7 content like many people suggests, we're just pointing out that EW has been pretty lackluster when it comes to endgame content compared to past expansions. Saying "take a break" is nothing but attempt to sweep the problems under the rug.