What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Absimiliard]

So what your interpreting is that Golbez and Zemus is a discount Arthas with Nerzhul.

Ok good to know

Eh, not so much. Arthas was the one calling the shots inside the Lich King. He consumed Ner'zhul at the end of Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. This consumption was not complete, however; part of Ner'zhul remained, struggling to regain control. Unfortunately, Arthas used Ner'zhul's guilt at playing a major role in the downfall of his own race to send him into a spiral of despair that not only made it impossible for him to ever claw his way back up, it resulted in his remnants' near-total dissolution over time. Only faint echoes and some memories remained by the time of Arthas' defeat.

Then along came Shadowlands to ruin a bunch of crap by introducing the Jailer, who apparently tried (and failed) to control the Lich Kings via the Helm of Domination. Ol' Ner'zhul's soul wound up in the Maw at some point, enslaved again.

With Zemus and Golbez, it's more of just the former spending years to wear the latter down until he could be made to serve, but never quite managing to completely break him.

[RyuDragnier]

So what your interpreting is that Golbez and Zemus is a discount Arthas with Nerzhul.

Ok good to know

Keep in mind FFIV originally came out in 1991.

[Vyrerus]

So what your interpreting is that Golbez and Zemus is a discount Arthas with Nerzhul.

Ok good to know

You mean Arthas and Nerzhul are discount Golbez and Zemus.

[Rolder50]

I really dislike when the story beats are just copy pasted from another FF. No creativity.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Eh, not so much. Arthas was the one calling the shots inside the Lich King. He consumed Ner'zhul at the end of Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. This consumption was not complete, however; part of Ner'zhul remained, struggling to regain control. Unfortunately, Arthas used Ner'zhul's guilt at playing a major role in the downfall of his own race to send him into a spiral of despair that not only made it impossible for him to ever claw his way back up, it resulted in his remnants' near-total dissolution over time. Only faint echoes and some memories remained by the time of Arthas' defeat.

Then along came Shadowlands to ruin a bunch of crap by introducing the Jailer, who apparently tried (and failed) to control the Lich Kings via the Helm of Domination. Ol' Ner'zhul's soul wound up in the Maw at some point, enslaved again.

With Zemus and Golbez, it's more of just the former spending years to wear the latter down until he could be made to serve, but never quite managing to completely break him.

Its why I said discount because when the Blizzard writers wrote that villian trope they managed to make it an interesting dynamic while in FFIV its just it is what it is

[RyuDragnier]

Its why I said discount because when the Blizzard writers wrote that villian trope they managed to make it an interesting dynamic while in FFIV its just it is what it is

Keep in mind that FFIV was the first big story focused JRPG released. It basically created a lot of tropes used by JRPGs since then. So while it seems discount, at the time it hadn't been done before and was 100% fresh.

[Rufalus]

Most of the narrative flaws stem from trying to fit a classic single-player FF story into a modern MMO. It didn't feel weird for things to be exaggerated, fast and convenient in a little storybook game with unrealistic pixel graphics like IV or V. Those kind of quick and neat hero stories are out of place in a big MMO world with realistic locations and a detailed history based largely on reality.

This WoL and their party just arrived and made a mockery of everyone's centuries of struggles and oppression. The established rules don't apply any more. Some wild theory they came up with 10 minutes ago just went perfectly in its first practical test, again, and they've now broken another previous limitation of science to save another planet or dimension or something, just in time to the beat of the patch drum.

I was interested in the more grounded Tanaka-era storytelling where you're a standard adventurer, more integrated into the world and subject to its rules. In that kind of environment, the little events become big by contrast to the usual fare. A Garlean general can be a big deal, it doesn't need to be a planet-eating colossal crab or something. And it just makes sense in the context of an MMO that every player is not the one legendary hero who protects all of time and space from calamity.

[ArcturusWhisper]

Man, did we get april fooled, or did Arcturus just forget about this thread?

Hah, *sigh*

LOL. You didn't get April fooled, promised! And I also didn't exactly forget this thread! But real life happened and then I didn't manage to read much of the thread beyond what I did previously. And then I got into Eureka *ahem*. I will see if I can get back to reading the thread lol.

I was interested in the more grounded Tanaka-era storytelling where you're a standard adventurer, more integrated into the world and subject to its rules. In that kind of environment, the little events become big by contrast to the usual fare. A Garlean general can be a big deal, it doesn't need to be a planet-eating colossal crab or something.

Yeah! It was actually pretty nice to not be a cosmic savior or whatever.

[aveyond-dreams]

It was actually pretty nice to not be a cosmic savior or whatever.

A pity that as of late every opportunity to depower and reset the WoL's power level has been squandered, not to mention we still carry around the accursed Azem stone whose all but lost its wow factor due to how repeatedly overused its been.

[RyuDragnier]

I was interested in the more grounded Tanaka-era storytelling where you're a standard adventurer, more integrated into the world and subject to its rules. In that kind of environment, the little events become big by contrast to the usual fare. A Garlean general can be a big deal, it doesn't need to be a planet-eating colossal crab or something. And it just makes sense in the context of an MMO that every player is not the one legendary hero who protects all of time and space from calamity.

This may be why I liked Save the Queen a lot. Yes, you were the WoL...but you were also a soldier on a battlefield. You couldn't be everywhere, do everything, you felt like you were only rushing to do what you could. Outside of the idiot moment in CLL, there wasn't really any one gigantic thing we did by ourselves. The entire region itself made this clear with Duels, Fates, and Critical Engagements, as it was impossible to be everywhere. And in the end, you didn't bring a stop to the threat, you didn't save anything yourself. That's the kind of storytelling we need more in MSQ IMO, the kind where we feel like we're just having to do what we can and nothing more.