The Healers should be reworked? New player perspective.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Lmao, really? Last few pages has been a rollercoaster of comedy.

But anyway...

Just wanna add an anecdote that I've been, and still experiencing at the moment of writing this. I've been accompanying a group 5 irl friends through their Free Trial experience since around 2 months ago. A couple of them have at least 350 hours of gameplay at this point and together with the rest are testing out other roles outside their first chosen main job. From the start, none of them picked healer as they were under an assumption I'm always being one and they did not need one so long I'm around. But eventually two of them decides to finally give the green role a dip just in case I wasn't around.

On my own part: I've been only accompanying them since their starting days. I have not spoiled any dungeon mechanic, I have not given them any pointer at all. I wanted them to enjoy their first timer experience to its fullest and wanted them to form their own opinion. I'm only answering when they specifically ask for something & job gameplay has almost never been amongst their question so far except the newbie dungeon tanking question (thus, unrelated to healing).

They went from "healing is challenging. It's stressful but fun in its own way." to "healing is too relaxing, just spam 1" in just 6 days. Sure, they've only been in some of the easier dungeons and trials. But nearing to the end of heavensward and still having a similar opinion makes me wonder if any of them will ever relish in maining one, at all.

[Tigore]

There's another thing I was thinking about for your idea, ForsakenRoe. I think your idea will allow a lot of WHMs to run around and jump because there will be more instant casts.

It goes back to WoW Druids doing that for the same reason. Some spells they use the most are Life bloom, Rejuvenation, Moonfire and Sunfire. For WHM, it would be Regen, the shorter Dia / Aero, Afflatus Bastion / Solace and Afflatus Misery. Renathras said Dia is still worth it on 4 targets currently and cutting the duration to a third may mean the DoT can be 5 - 25% times stronger. This means a 12 - 15s DoT would almost remove Glare in favor of Dia spam with 3 - 4 enemies present.

Edit: changed the buff level for Dia. Since Glare is being cast less, it may need a slight counter buff for a 12 - 15s DoT timer.

[ty_taurus]

Lmao, really? Last few pages has been a rollercoaster of comedy.

But anyway...

Just wanna add an anecdote that I've been, and still experiencing at the moment of writing this. I've been accompanying a group 5 irl friends through their Free Trial experience since around 2 months ago. A couple of them have at least 350 hours of gameplay at this point and together with the rest are testing out other roles outside their first chosen main job. From the start, none of them picked healer as they were under an assumption I'm always being one and they did not need one so long I'm around. But eventually two of them decides to finally give the green role a dip just in case I wasn't around.

On my own part: I've been only accompanying them since their starting days. I have not spoiled any dungeon mechanic, I have not given them any pointer at all. I wanted them to enjoy their first timer experience to its fullest and wanted them to form their own opinion. I'm only answering when they specifically ask for something & job gameplay has almost never been amongst their question so far except the newbie dungeon tanking question (thus, unrelated to healing).

They went from "healing is challenging. It's stressful but fun in its own way." to "healing is too relaxing, just spam 1" in just 6 days. Sure, they've only been in some of the easier dungeons and trials. But nearing to the end of heavensward and still having a similar opinion makes me wonder if any of them will ever relish in maining one, at all.

I just tell people not to even bother with healers if they're new. I bring up the role quests and to just level arcanist up on the side if they're interested in those stories, and that kills 2 birds with 1 stone, but other than that, there's no reason to play as a healer.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I just tell people not to even bother with healers if they're new. I bring up the role quests and to just level arcanist up on the side if they're interested in those stories, and that kills 2 birds with 1 stone, but other than that, there's no reason to play as a healer.

Honestly? It was tempting to do just that, for I'm just another jaded healer.

But I realized that at some point, I was in their shoes too (everything was 'new' and a lot of wow-first timer factors distracting me) however long that was & I have not the right to tell them what to do or like. I don't want to ruin that for them, henceforth sticking to not commenting anything unless questioned for my opinion seems only right.

If they end up loving it to the point of maining it, then good for them. If not, then I can't say I'll be surprised.

[ty_taurus]

Honestly? It was tempting to do just that, for I'm just another jaded healer.

But I realized that at some point, I was in their shoes too (everything was 'new' and a lot of wow-first timer factors distracting me) however long that was & I have not the right to tell them what to do or like. I don't want to ruin that for them, henceforth sticking to not commenting anything unless questioned for my opinion seems only right.

If they end up loving it to the point of maining it, then good for them. If not, then I can't say I'll be surprised.

To be more clear, I don't hammer it on people. Basically, I just say things along the lines of "The healers have been in a rough spot for a long time now and get pretty stale after a while. I recommend checking out Red Mage at level 50. A lot of people feel like it's one of the most fun jobs right now." It also helps that Red Mage just looks a lot cooler than the healers for most people I talk to.

[Sebazy]

I’m still of the opinion that healers are at their best when the game is still fresh to the player, the people around you are likely undergeared and you haven’t worked out just how little healing is actually needed to get people through most stuff. For all the issues with healing in this game, bumbling through levelling dungeons blind is still a highlight imo.

[Semirhage]

The reason it's important to me is so everyone can participate at the same level, something you all are desperate to avoid. I noted a few months ago what you guys don't want to admit. The reason for these changes isn't so you "won't be bored", it's so others won't output the same level of damage as you. That's it. That's ALWAYS been it. If it was merely about boredom, you wouldn't demand every Healer Job be changed, nor would you insist that any non-change variation be gimped to do less damage.

The goal has ever been so you can flex on people not doing what you're doing, something you feel you can't do - or can't do enough - now. THAT is what is petty. THAT is what is trolly. THAT is what is toxic.
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And we all know the answer: Because you need to be able to flex on other people as part of how you define your self-worth, and you must be able to do it on every Job in the game.

Remember when I said that Ren's entire goal here wasn't to keep a low skill floor, but explicitly to ensure that one job doesn't have a ceiling? Because Sylphies are always about both utterly refusing to improve at their jobs (which is fine by itself), while also demanding that their level of performance be declared mastery?

And then the next argument is "bro it's just a video game why are you so obsessed with gaining skill at a video game I play to *relax* which is the only well-adjusted way to play. Anyway pancake the skill ceiling down, I'm not jealous of people who play more skillfully than I do or anything".

It's always the same.

[ForsakenRoe]

The reason it's important to me is so everyone can participate at the same level, something you all are desperate to avoid. I noted a few months ago what you guys don't want to admit. The reason for these changes isn't so you "won't be bored", it's so others won't output the same level of damage as you. That's it. That's ALWAYS been it. If it was merely about boredom, you wouldn't demand every Healer Job be changed, nor would you insist that any non-change variation be gimped to do less damage.

The goal has ever been so you can flex on people not doing what you're doing, something you feel you can't do - or can't do enough - now. THAT is what is petty. THAT is what is trolly. THAT is what is toxic.

If I wanted to do that I'd play AST and SCH because they provide more RDPS. You wanna know why I don't play AST so much anymore? Because it makes my hands hurt, to do that bastard opener over and over in prog, wiping because the game's current over-reliance on 'the burst window' means that the RDPS variance is absolutely insane, and then having to do the damn opener again. I played it for P4S prog for a while and my hands hurt for literal days afterwards. I ended up clearing on WHM because, even in it's 'trash' state (aka, it works if it has a bit of piety which, surprise, the crafted set has tons of), at least it wasn't causing me physical pain.

As for SCH, I'm just more a fan of SGE's aesthetics. That and the fairy clunk/response time has always bothered me.

It honestly depends on how you look at it, but note that 4 new attack buttons is almost 100% more (doubling) what we have now. Moreover, the buttons also (and existing ones) are changed to have far shorter durations, meaning you're hitting them far more often. Dia is slashed to just over 1/3rd. Fluid Aura is just over 1/3rd as often as Assize. You have an entirely new gauge mechanic and burst cycle optimization.

I know how I worded it in the pitch but guys... It's not 'Fluid Aura' it's Water, and later Banish, come on =(

Also just because I added 'new buttons' does not mean it's somehow strenuous just based on that, as I have made sure to make those 'new buttons' be 'old buttons that contextually transform'. You don't have an issue with Inner Chaos, surely? Would it be an issue if I had made a 15 button cycling rotation, but every button automatically swaps to the next one in the sequence, and are all bound to one button as with MNK in PVP? I think there's a massive difference in gameplay feel between 'increasing the number of actions' and 'increasing the number of keybinds'.

And the potency difference between 'putting the empowered skills in burst' and 'not' is purposely kept low, for the sake of trying to avoid that problem, the problem Misery caused. If you want to dump Quake, Tornado, Flood inside of raidbuffs, doing so would take you 3 GCDs to get 'all of the bonus' in, and it'd equal one Glare of bonus. Contrast that to Misery, which is one GCD that is worth 4 Glares.

No, the reason why some Zurvan PFs blocked WHM was because they saw the problems the job was specifically having with MP in A12S and how outspoken the raid community was about it and came to the conclusion that WHM must be DOA for Extremes as well.

People be dumb sometimes. I got a guy in week 1 prog of P8S saying SGE is dead, complete trash, shit job for shit players etc because 'it does trash damage'. I looked up the difference in damage on the forbidden site to compare and contrast. At 99th, the difference was 60 dps. Sixty. The 'metaslaving' brainrot has destroyed any rational thought in some people, and all they can do is parrot the same tired old rubbish about X class is trash because someone else said it was bad.

People cleared week 1 on MCH. If that job can clear week 1, in A: the 'trash damage' state it was in, and B: pre-nerf', there's no excuse for these 'we need meta or we can't clear' players. People cleared week 1 of P4S as WHM when it's MP economy was dog. Back in the old days, the classic 'DRK is bad' in SB, leading into world first in both ultimates. 'WHM is bad' leading to it being world first in both ultimates. Saw it in WOW too, people saying that they 'need' a DK for Dathea to gather the adds. No, you don't 'need' a DK, you can gather them by just using silences correctly, but that requires a modicum of skill, so of course they'd rather do the easymode way.

The meta is meta for a reason, but most people don't play at a level where the meta actually makes the difference, and I wish they'd realize that. I'm never going to be at the point where it affects me, because I don't logrun or speedrun. What DOES affect me though, is when some plonker hears on reddit that 'WHM is trash omegalul' and just takes it as fact

[Renathras]

Remember when I said that Ren's entire goal here wasn't to keep a low skill floor, but explicitly to ensure that one job doesn't have a ceiling? Because Sylphies are always about both utterly refusing to improve at their jobs (which is fine by itself), while also demanding that their level of performance be declared mastery?

And then the next argument is "bro it's just a video game why are you so obsessed with gaining skill at a video game I play to *relax* which is the only well-adjusted way to play. Anyway pancake the skill ceiling down, I'm not jealous of people who play more skillfully than I do or anything".

It's always the same.

Ah, the old "I've been exposed! Quick, attack someone!!!"

My entire goal?

What IS my goal, Semi?

You tell me what it is, then I'll tell you what it actually is.

And who's the Sylphie? I'm not by definition since I cast damage spells. Maybe stuff your petty insults - for once.

[ty_taurus]

Ah, the old "I've been exposed! Quick, attack someone!!!"

My entire goal?

What IS my goal, Semi?

You tell me what it is, then I'll tell you what it actually is.

And who's the Sylphie? I'm not by definition since I cast damage spells. Maybe stuff your petty insults - for once.

I agree, "Sylphie" is not an accurate term. "Vauthry" is the better character example.