The Healers should be reworked? New player perspective.

[Rithy255]

just remove them, put warrior and paladin as the new healers, then we good.

[GrimGale]

No, it really IS petty when you say it like that. If you say "because you care about charity for children with cancer, I care" then I only expect that you only care because he cares about this issue and you wouldn't give a second thought if he didn't care about cancer....
You're basically saying you're only paying attention because someone else is paying attention. The logic you are using is pretty much incongruous and shows you wouldn't give a damn about something like this had it not been for someone else.

"I only care about it to be a contrarian." is a dangerously shitpost/trollish thing to admit.

[Osmond]

As a casual healer, I have to say: I'm deeply insulted by how little you think I'm capable of.

......it's best not to make responses like that or ppl are going to clown you harder. Try to control that, it'll get worse. Best to grow a pair and eat it.

In my mind, this sounds like a troll, but idk in this enviroment. Everyone is emotional and pretty much forced to look at people in a cautious manor cause you don't know lol...

[Tigore]

Hmm, when I do look at ForsakenRoe's idea, Renathras, that one might still fit the bill of still keeping WHM almost as simple as it started here. It pretty much just has 4 new buttons to press with 2 lily spells and the Blessing to button morph to Druid-like element spells. The 2 lily spells I believe are similar to your proposed idea on giving a damage reduction or Regen lily. In this case, it was used to bring back Stoneskin for a small shield. It is slightly lower than the heal amount of Solace, but it will likely feel like a better choice with our over geared situation now. Well, without the wasted feeling of just randomly using Rapture after an encounter is done. The buttons morphs change Dia, Glare and the returning cooldown Fluid Aura / Banish. So it kind of borrows from what the SMN spells do. A different spell, but the same key pressing for similar functions.

The Fluid Aura probably could be forgotten in a rotation occasionally and it would still be okay since it is just a DPS boost for content that has no enrage for most of it. The new lily spells more pertain to over gearing scenarios and the new players could still continue to use Solace and Rapture as better options when everyone is freshly geared. Forgetting the new Blessing spell would slightly sink the performance of how well the person can heal and hold mana. Not sure by how much since it would be a new spell to adjust.

[ForsakenRoe]

You can lay off the dude crush.

Again, you're attacking me for what your crush did.

What are you even on about? Are you just throwing darts at the wall of 'responses to discredit opponent on online forum' now?

Honestly, at this point, I don't even give a damn anymore. Yoshi P, if you ever read this: Don't change Healers a bit. These people don't want to compromise, just say no. I argued in favor of changing several of the Healer Jobs, I've argued in favor of making healing more complex and interesting on the healing side of things. I've argued in favor of various changes to get more mileage out of the damage kits we have.

I just don't care anymore.

If you change them, be ready for people to quit. I would at this point.

Listen to reason, or listen to the uncompromising zealots, I care not.
[Maybe this is why Devs don't read these forums...there's no reason or compromise to be had here.]

Imagine a set of workers goes on strike, say, the postal service, fire service, police and ambulance drivers. They want to get a 10% pay rise because of inflation. After all of this back and forth, you have said 'Parent company, if you see this, don't give them a dime. They don't want to compromise.' The workers (in this case, me and others like me on this forum) have been asking 'ok maybe we can't get 10% all at once, how about 5% now, and 5% again next year?' or 'ok what about 2.5% increase per year for 4 years' or even 'ok we can't get the full 10% ever, what about if we get 7% and we tighten our belts to make up the other 3% to keep up with inflation?'

And your solution is 'no keep their pay exactly the same, they don't want to compromise' because your idea of 'compromise' is 'keep everything the same'. At least, for one healer. Which I guess would be like if the postal service, fire service, police and idk ambulance drivers all went on strike, and the last 3 got settlements they could agree to, but the posties got told to pound sand.

And as the kids say, 'aight bet', change them and watch as this prediction of the apocalypse turns out to be... just like every other prediction of the apocalypse we've seen come and go so far in human history. You once again underestimate the resilience the casual players have to 'complexity', or at least how easily they are able to ignore the extra complexity until their skill grows to the point where they can handle it. You might quit because of this change, the casuals will not notice. All this 'we must protect the causals' is projection.

Hmm, when I do look at ForsakenRoe's idea, Renathras, that one might still fit the bill of still keeping WHM almost as simple as it started here. It pretty much just has 4 new buttons to press with 2 lily spells and the Blessing to button morph to Druid-like element spells. The 2 lily spells I believe are similar to your proposed idea on giving a damage reduction or Regen lily. In this case, it was used to bring back Stoneskin for a small shield. It is slightly lower than the heal amount of Solace, but it will likely feel like a better choice with our over geared situation now. Well, without the wasted feeling of just randomly using Rapture after an encounter is done. The buttons morphs change Dia, Glare and the returning cooldown Fluid Aura / Banish. So it kind of borrows from what the SMN spells do. A different spell, but the same key pressing for similar functions.

The Fluid Aura probably could be forgotten in a rotation occasionally and it would still be okay since it is just a DPS boost for content that has no enrage for most of it. The new lily spells more pertain to over gearing scenarios and the new players could still continue to use Solace and Rapture as better options when everyone is freshly geared. Forgetting the new Blessing spell would slightly sink the performance of how well the person can heal and hold mana. Not sure by how much since it would be a new spell to adjust.

None of that detail matters to Ren because I suggested that Dia have a 12s CD, and Ren hates DOTs

As a casual healer, I have to say: I'm deeply insulted by how little you think I'm capable of.

Oh precious baby we must protect you from the potential of accidentally pressing the wrong damage button and causing a wipe in Lapis Manalis, content infamous for having absolutely no enrage timer at all! The mere possibility that you might make a suboptimal decision from GCD to GCD must keep you awake with night terrors

Sarcasm, of course, unlike some in this forum I trust casual healers to have the potential to learn, grow, and improve. Once upon a time, a friend of mine got into healing because in the FC group that we had at the time, I was the only one who was healing, and we constantly had to get a pug to fill the healer slot (Creator). They eventually got enough confidence, presumably from me, to coheal with me. Recently they cleared TEA with her static, putting her Ult clear count at the same as mine (I'm lazy, not tried DSR or TOP yet, OSRS addiction atm) and I can confidently say they're a better healer than I am. When I think back to what they were like first stepping into Savage, as a scared BRD terrified of dropping the scrap pile in the wrong place etc, and how far they have grown as a player in that time, obviously I feel happy about being part of that, but I also think now: If they can do it, and I could do it before them, why is there this idea that other people can't do it? Is it because me and my friend started healing in HW, that we are somehow built different? That EW players just aren't 'built right' to survive the concept of 'complexity in job design'?

In a game who's main story focus is about 'surpassing your limits', a certain someone sure is keen to insist that 'no, the casuals will not be able to surpass THEIR limits, it will be too much for them', without even knowing what the casual's limits even are. I think it speaks volumes about that person's own limits, and they want to project their failings onto others because they don't want to be the only one who's held back by their own lack of self-confidence, or their fear of failure that prevents them from trying, failing and learning as the rest of us do

[Renathras]

No, it really IS...

No, it isn't.

God DAMN but you guys try REALLY hard to insult people you don't like.

.

The point is simple:

It's important to me and it's important to you/Ty.

Want to know what's petty? Oh, that's easy - Why is it important to you? Oh RIGHT: So that people who don't do it will forever be INFERIOR TO YOU.

THAT is what is petty.

.

The reason it's important to me is so everyone can participate at the same level, something you all are desperate to avoid. I noted a few months ago what you guys don't want to admit. The reason for these changes isn't so you "won't be bored", it's so others won't output the same level of damage as you. That's it. That's ALWAYS been it. If it was merely about boredom, you wouldn't demand every Healer Job be changed, nor would you insist that any non-change variation be gimped to do less damage.

The goal has ever been so you can flex on people not doing what you're doing, something you feel you can't do - or can't do enough - now. THAT is what is petty. THAT is what is trolly. THAT is what is toxic.

.

I refuse to accept this idea that a thing can only be important to the people wanting change and that it either (a) can't be important to the people opposing it OR (b) if it is important to the people opposing it, it's only because they're being contrarian.

That's a stupid way to try and curtail opposing opinions, and I got tired of standing for it WELL before now. I'm not about to relent on that stance. If something is important enough to you to fight over, CLEARLY it is important, and important to me, too. NOT just because it is to you, but because it is to me for my own reasons. Note that none of you are asking yourselves "Why is this important to us?"; only _I_ get asked that question.

And we all know the answer: Because you need to be able to flex on other people as part of how you define your self-worth, and you must be able to do it on every Job in the game.

I also clearly remember WHM somewhat frequently getting excluded in PF for Extreme and Savage content.

Due to the same reason as SB: SCH and AST had more party utility. As much as people say utility doesn't matter, party buffs are clearly the deciding factor in otherwise level playing fields, and always will be.

I don't remember seeing an exodus of healers though and I highly doubt that cleric was removed specifically for that reason.

I do. By late HW, Healer ques were faster than Tank ques for casual content.

I don't think you're far off though, just cut out everything after the bit where people were cussing each other out over the thing. My suspicion is that it got removed because it was so divisive and it was directly at odds with the casual centric direction Yoshida wanted to head in.

It was both. But yes, Yoshi P wants a more casual direction, which we can clearly see is still true now; even more true, actually.

"I only care about it to be a contrarian." is a dangerously shitpost/trollish thing to admit.

Good thing that's not what I said, then.

Though I must admire your collective devotion to "Insult Ren no matter what".

Everyone is emotional and pretty much forced to look at people in a cautious manor cause you don't know lol...

It's sad that it's gotten to that point, isn't it? Where people are so intolerant to ideas they disagree with that it makes them intolerant to the people who hold those ideas by proxy.

...

It honestly depends on how you look at it, but note that 4 new attack buttons is almost 100% more (doubling) what we have now. Moreover, the buttons also (and existing ones) are changed to have far shorter durations, meaning you're hitting them far more often. Dia is slashed to just over 1/3rd. Fluid Aura is just over 1/3rd as often as Assize. You have an entirely new gauge mechanic and burst cycle optimization.

Are you just throwing darts at the wall of 'responses to discredit opponent on online forum' now?

No, that's half the people on your side targeted at me. In case it had escaped your notice.

[Sebazy]

I do. By late HW, Healer ques were faster than Tank ques for casual content.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6223174

Didn't we already debunk this? Here's my sources, please cite yours thanks. Talking about citing sources.....

It was both. But yes, Yoshi P wants a more casual direction, which we can clearly see is still true now; even more true, actually.

'It was both?' Well thank you for clarifying Yoshida's direction for me. I'm glad I chose to leave this thread in your all seeing and all capable hands. Ps can you remind me what I had for dinner yesterday? I'm at a loss what to cook today but I don't want to dupeday it. Cheers.

*edit*

It's sad that it's gotten to that point, isn't it? Where people are so intolerant to ideas they disagree with that it makes them intolerant to the people who hold those ideas by proxy.

Also lol

Are you actually losing control as you type? Go sit in the garden for 10 minutes then come back and realise how ironic this is coming from you as of late. You literally turned tail on your very own Thundercloud suggestion after I whole heartedly agreed with it.

The reason it's important to me is so everyone can participate at the same level, something you all are desperate to avoid. I noted a few months ago what you guys don't want to admit. The reason for these changes isn't so you "won't be bored", it's so others won't output the same level of damage as you. That's it. That's ALWAYS been it. If it was merely about boredom, you wouldn't demand every Healer Job be changed, nor would you insist that any non-change variation be gimped to do less damage.

Seriously, get a grip sir

*edit2*

Also, feelsrelevantman

Very strange, considering I have no dislike of raiders to show.

[ty_taurus]

No, it isn't.

God DAMN but you guys try REALLY hard to insult people you don't like.

That's you my guy. You are the one constantly insulting everyone else, and then pops a blood vessel anytime someone tries to call you out on it. Would you like to speak with the manager?

[IDontPetLalas]

That's you my guy. You are the one constantly insulting everyone else, and then pops a blood vessel anytime someone tries to call you out on it. Would you like to speak with the manager?

When one of the most patient people on the forums has come to the brink of calling you out as a Karen, perhaps it's time to go out and touch some grass.

[Sebazy]

On a more serious note, what relevant utility did SCH bring to a Skip Soar Zurvan PF that WHM couldn't?

Shields? Didn't need them. DPS? You didn't even need DPS jobs to skip soar.. MP? Zurvan had long enough intermissions that it wasn't really a problematic fight for WHM back then.

No, the reason why some Zurvan PFs blocked WHM was because they saw the problems the job was specifically having with MP in A12S and how outspoken the raid community was about it and came to the conclusion that WHM must be DOA for Extremes as well.