The Healers should be reworked? New player perspective.

[ty_taurus]

Actually, why not just have another Blue Mage update in 7.1 that increases the level cap from 80 to 100, and once reaching level 100, you can unlock Unlimited BLU (Tank), Unlimited BLU (DPS), and Unlimited BLU (Healer). Each of this offers a preset selection of spells with revamped effects that make them balanced alongside the other jobs of that role and functions as a normal job. Each version of BLU reuses animations from the spellbook, but all the effects are adjusted to feel balanced, and healer BLU is basically a reskin of the current White Mage--a very surface-level healer with no real complexity, and no real skill ceiling, but good enough to get you through all instances of combat. Meanwhile White Mage is allowed to develop a more well-established skill ceiling.

Anyone who doesn't like how simple healer BLU is also has the more Red Mage level DPS BLU, or the Dark Knight level Tank BLU. Limited BLU still exists and can be played outside of normal content for things like FATEs, the challenge log, etc. But anyone who wants 1 button DPS spam can just play healer BLU.

Some examples of what that could look like as far as skills:

The True Blue Gauge:
- Every second, the True Blue Gauge increases by 1 to a maximum of 100. when the True Blue Gauge is 20 or higher, casting any healing spell consumes 20 gauge and grants a charge of True Blue, allowing 1 use of Saintly Beam.

DPS Abilities
Water Cannon: 340 potency single target damage
Song of Torment: 80 potency single target DoT
Quasar: 180 potency AoE DPS
Stotram: OGCD 300 potency AoE DPS button that restores HP nearby party members, and restores MP to yourself. 40 second cooldown.
Saintly Beam: 680 potency AoE DPS in a straight line; requires a charge of True Blue

Healing Actions
Pom Cure: 500 potency single target heal
Pom Cure II: 800 potency single target heal
Pom Medica: 400 potency AoE heal
Angel Whisper: Resurrect spell
Exuviation: 200 potency AoE heal + regen (larger radius than current)
White Wind: 200 potency AoE heal that additionally restores HP based on 50% of your current HP.
Angel's Snack: OGCD 90 second cooldown that restores an additional 200 potency to allies healed with Pom Medica, Exuviation, or White Wind.
Transfusion: Single target OGCD heal with a potency of 700 on a 60 second cooldown.
Gobskin: Single target OGCD barrier and 10% mitigation on 30 second cooldown with 2 charges.

Other Noteworthy Actions
Condensed Libra: OGCD effect, increases your True Blue Gauge by 20; 40 second cooldown.
Chirp: Stuns all nearby enemies for 4 seconds and increases own healing magic potency by 20%.
Eerie Soundwave: Reduces damage dealt by all nearby enemies by 10%.

Something like that as a starting point. Anyone who cannot stand the other healers having more DPS buttons can play the new BLU, and anyone who wants a more complex BLU can play BLU as a DPS or Tank. Everyone wins.

[Osmond]

Best to stay on topic as a healer discussion on the rework.

[ForsakenRoe]

Why don’t you care for blu healing? It has a focus on strong gcd heals and a variety of damage options.

Answered your own question there I think

Something like that as a starting point. Anyone who cannot stand the other healers having more DPS buttons can play the new BLU, and anyone who wants a more complex BLU can play BLU as a DPS or Tank. Everyone wins.

And the best part is, the alternative to this would also be 'an option': BLU is the highly technical, 'it has insane skillcap', PHD complexity healer, and WHM stays as the sleep inducing brain-off healer it currently is. Everyone wins (except the people who like WHM aesthetic and want actual gameplay)

[Sebazy]

"It was the pugs and casuals that gave up with it" - but you just said you were "fairly casual". So did casuals give up, or were you not really casual?

Read the very line of mine that you quoted perhaps? From there, read the rest of the comment too. Ta.

I quite clearly stated that we were a midcore group no? The FC overall was casual, but it was large enough to field some groups that were absolutely a cut above casual. Even as a midcore group, we weren’t the most focused or optimised by any stretch though. It was first and foremost just a group of friends. We just happened to be fortunate enough to have consistent playtimes and a few really solid players that didn’t mind carrying.

[Renathras]

...

I didn't say people were attacking the Healer ones. My point was that more people are willing to answer the Healer ones (negatively) than go to the BLM ones to register a negative opinion about it.

One loathed, one incompatible with raid design, one the top dev’s favourite child and the last both accessible and coherent but unable to do level cap content? Sounds about right.

Why don’t you care for blu healing? It has a focus on strong gcd heals and a variety of damage options.

One brings shadow, one brings light
To this riddle all souls are tied
Brief our moments, brazen and bright
Forged in fury, tempered in ice

One brings shadow, one brings light
One more chapter we've yet to write
Want for nothing, nothing denied
Wand'ring ended, futures aligned
One brings shadow, one brings light

They all work, it more comes down to what's optimal. And everyone should remember the phrase: One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Many people wouldn't loathe it at all, and at this point, it's borderline impossible to not be compatible with raid design. It more comes down to how much people want to fuss about ~2-3% dps. Many groups do, but then again, there are absolutely raid groups that take whatever they have and don't care at all.

As for BLU healing:

Do much DPS focus. A majority of your buttons are for dealing damage. At that point, I may as well just run a DPS BLU in a 1T/7DPS setup and everyone cast White Wind.

I like the healing kit okay, I don't like the DPS kit.

Something like that as a starting point. Anyone who cannot stand the other healers having more DPS buttons can play the new BLU, and anyone who wants a more complex BLU can play BLU as a DPS or Tank. Everyone wins.

And the best part is, the alternative to this would also be 'an option': BLU is the highly technical, 'it has insane skillcap', PHD complexity healer, and WHM stays as the sleep inducing brain-off healer it currently is. Everyone wins (except the people who like WHM aesthetic and want actual gameplay)

"Four Healer Model", "Five Healer Model"; same thing. This is literally what I pitch all the time.

Like, this is literally what I pitch ALL THE TIME. Normally, my version is "SGE has a DPS rotation, SCH has more DoTs, AST has more buff focus, and WHM stays the same" and under that idea, SGE and/or SCH would take the place of your BLU Healer here. But it's honestly just two ways of getting the same result. Hell, we could do them BOTH.

Best to stay on topic as a healer discussion on the rework.

Could be nice. But I'm not sure this discussion is bad, per se.

[ty_taurus]

"Four Healer Model", "Five Healer Model"; same thing. This is literally what I pitch all the time.

Like, this is literally what I pitch ALL THE TIME. Normally, my version is "SGE has a DPS rotation, SCH has more DoTs, AST has more buff focus, and WHM stays the same" and under that idea, SGE and/or SCH would take the place of your BLU Healer here. But it's honestly just two ways of getting the same result. Hell, we could do them BOTH.

The key difference with the BLU suggestion I made is that someone who is interested in BLU is not restricted to the 1-button DPS dilemma. They can switch to DPS BLU or Tank BLU which would have far more diverse offensive libraries.

The problem with doing that to WHM is that there is no option for someone who likes WHM but wants to engage with rotational gameplay like every other job. They are subjected to the kitty pen. If we must have a kitty pen, I want every job to have the option to step out of it.

Or, instead of BLU. Make it CNJ. It's an asset that exists in the game, so why not use it? CNJ can equip all the same things as WHM, and has mostly the same abilities, but instead of getting new DPS buttons, it just gets a trait that increases Glare's potency. WHM instead gets a different DPS action instead of that trait.

[ForsakenRoe]

Or, instead of BLU. Make it CNJ. It's an asset that exists in the game, so why not use it? CNJ can equip all the same things as WHM, and has mostly the same abilities, but instead of getting new DPS buttons, it just gets a trait that increases Glare's potency. WHM instead gets a different DPS action instead of that trait.

There was a guy who I saw in Praetorium one time who was 89 CNJ, and was going to hit 90 because of the run. They claimed that they had not been walled by any content so far, and that Medica/Cure2 was enough to keep up with all the healing requirements. Of course, I tried to explain that 'burdening your cohealer by lacking over half of your kit' is not great in a cooperative game, but the other people in the party said 'who cares theyre having fun' and such so... I guess that's the player SE designs around?

[ASkellington]

The key difference with the BLU suggestion I made is that someone who is interested in BLU is not restricted to the 1-button DPS dilemma. They can switch to DPS BLU or Tank BLU which would have far more diverse offensive libraries.

The problem with doing that to WHM is that there is no option for someone who likes WHM but wants to engage with rotational gameplay like every other job. They are subjected to the kitty pen. If we must have a kitty pen, I want every job to have the option to step out of it.

Pretty much this. WHM's identity as a healer should be on its healing style of being a straightforward and easy to heal with healer in comparison to its competitors:

- less buffing management
- no pet
- few to no regens
- no way of healing by doing damage

Basically an easy to pick up healer that doesn't have a mechanic or several to manage ON TOP of healing.

It should NOT be a healer defined by having 1 DoT and a Nuke with Misery on the side. And no Assize does not and will never count. I don't count ES as a dps tool and I don't know why anyone else does either.

When it comes to damage it should be just as straight forward and easy to pick up as its healing counter part.

[Renathras]

The key difference with the BLU suggestion I made is that someone who is interested in BLU is not restricted to the 1-button DPS dilemma. They can switch to DPS BLU or Tank BLU which would have far more diverse offensive libraries.

It has 5 DPS abilities, not 1, though?

My point was if we did do something like:

"Give SCH players 2 DoTs, make one of them a Hardcast, and give them Tri-Disaster and make Aetherflow reset the cooldown of said Tri-Disaster. Let WHM stay exactly the same so that we can meme on it for being the baby healer. Bring back Nocturnal AST. Bring back AOE DoTs. And make SGE have some wack-a-- over complicated DPS rotation that baffles people's minds...and see if they embrace it or not.

If someone complains that they need to be rewarded with more DPS for their complicated Job; simply tell them that the reward is being able to have fun, and not being bored out of their ----ing minds. Shut the ---- up about a whole 2% DPS variance."

[Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbWubxOTUWU ]

...then that would fix this problem because SCH and SGE would already fit that bill.

.

Honestly, I HAVE thought of the CNJ thing before. Also that ACN should split into both SMN and Evoker (Evoker should be New SMN, SMN should be Old SMN. Though I guess they could reverse those...) [oh, and also make a simple GEO to branch off CNJ so CNJ/WHM/GEO could be "the baby healer/dps" one]. If we had a slight bit more flexibility and creativity...but the Devs seem to kind of want to pretend 1.0 and the Class system never existed at this point. But having one be the GCD Healer with a simple rotation and the other being more complex would be a possible solution, though they'd have to change how Traits work, otherwise WHM would still inherit the CNJ Trait that ups the Stone damage.

There are plenty of ways to deal with the problem, it's just doing it.

Either way, it would fall under the "Four/Five/Six Healers Model", no matter what number we use. That's 100% the very argument I've been pushing all this time.

I'm...glad you're coming around to it, I guess? /shrug

And I don't mean THAT facetiously. If you actually do kind of agree with me on that, great. My version is actually more extensive than yours (since it wouldn't be JUST BLU Healer for players that want more DPS rotation, it would also include SCH and SGE, and AST would have a more buff focused gameplay to draw away from its GCD Malificspam), but it's the same/close enough general position we should be able to dovetail.

[ForsakenRoe]

"Give SCH players 2 DoTs, make one of them a Hardcast, and give them Tri-Disaster and make Aetherflow reset the cooldown of said Tri-Disaster. Let WHM stay exactly the same so that we can meme on it for being the baby healer. Bring back Nocturnal AST. Bring back AOE DoTs. And make SGE have some wack-a-- over complicated DPS rotation that baffles people's minds...and see if they embrace it or not.

This is the part people take issue with. We don't need THAT part of Stormblood design back.

Unless you want to be locked out of PFs by every Tom Dick and Harry for playing the job you like? Being forced to play a 'proper, not baby' job you're not as much a fan of the aesthetic of? Or would this not be an issue, because DF doesn't care what healer you are or what the playerbase thinks, and so you can clear the EX roulette just fine