The Healers should be reworked? New player perspective.

[ty_taurus]

"Four Healer Model", "Five Healer Model"; same thing. This is literally what I pitch all the time.

Like, this is literally what I pitch ALL THE TIME. Normally, my version is "SGE has a DPS rotation, SCH has more DoTs, AST has more buff focus, and WHM stays the same" and under that idea, SGE and/or SCH would take the place of your BLU Healer here. But it's honestly just two ways of getting the same result. Hell, we could do them BOTH.

The key difference with the BLU suggestion I made is that someone who is interested in BLU is not restricted to the 1-button DPS dilemma. They can switch to DPS BLU or Tank BLU which would have far more diverse offensive libraries.

The problem with doing that to WHM is that there is no option for someone who likes WHM but wants to engage with rotational gameplay like every other job. They are subjected to the kitty pen. If we must have a kitty pen, I want every job to have the option to step out of it.

Or, instead of BLU. Make it CNJ. It's an asset that exists in the game, so why not use it? CNJ can equip all the same things as WHM, and has mostly the same abilities, but instead of getting new DPS buttons, it just gets a trait that increases Glare's potency. WHM instead gets a different DPS action instead of that trait.

[ForsakenRoe]

Or, instead of BLU. Make it CNJ. It's an asset that exists in the game, so why not use it? CNJ can equip all the same things as WHM, and has mostly the same abilities, but instead of getting new DPS buttons, it just gets a trait that increases Glare's potency. WHM instead gets a different DPS action instead of that trait.

There was a guy who I saw in Praetorium one time who was 89 CNJ, and was going to hit 90 because of the run. They claimed that they had not been walled by any content so far, and that Medica/Cure2 was enough to keep up with all the healing requirements. Of course, I tried to explain that 'burdening your cohealer by lacking over half of your kit' is not great in a cooperative game, but the other people in the party said 'who cares theyre having fun' and such so... I guess that's the player SE designs around?

[ASkellington]

The key difference with the BLU suggestion I made is that someone who is interested in BLU is not restricted to the 1-button DPS dilemma. They can switch to DPS BLU or Tank BLU which would have far more diverse offensive libraries.

The problem with doing that to WHM is that there is no option for someone who likes WHM but wants to engage with rotational gameplay like every other job. They are subjected to the kitty pen. If we must have a kitty pen, I want every job to have the option to step out of it.

Pretty much this. WHM's identity as a healer should be on its healing style of being a straightforward and easy to heal with healer in comparison to its competitors:

- less buffing management
- no pet
- few to no regens
- no way of healing by doing damage

Basically an easy to pick up healer that doesn't have a mechanic or several to manage ON TOP of healing.

It should NOT be a healer defined by having 1 DoT and a Nuke with Misery on the side. And no Assize does not and will never count. I don't count ES as a dps tool and I don't know why anyone else does either.

When it comes to damage it should be just as straight forward and easy to pick up as its healing counter part.

[Renathras]

The key difference with the BLU suggestion I made is that someone who is interested in BLU is not restricted to the 1-button DPS dilemma. They can switch to DPS BLU or Tank BLU which would have far more diverse offensive libraries.

It has 5 DPS abilities, not 1, though?

My point was if we did do something like:

"Give SCH players 2 DoTs, make one of them a Hardcast, and give them Tri-Disaster and make Aetherflow reset the cooldown of said Tri-Disaster. Let WHM stay exactly the same so that we can meme on it for being the baby healer. Bring back Nocturnal AST. Bring back AOE DoTs. And make SGE have some wack-a-- over complicated DPS rotation that baffles people's minds...and see if they embrace it or not.

If someone complains that they need to be rewarded with more DPS for their complicated Job; simply tell them that the reward is being able to have fun, and not being bored out of their ----ing minds. Shut the ---- up about a whole 2% DPS variance."

[Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbWubxOTUWU ]

...then that would fix this problem because SCH and SGE would already fit that bill.

.

Honestly, I HAVE thought of the CNJ thing before. Also that ACN should split into both SMN and Evoker (Evoker should be New SMN, SMN should be Old SMN. Though I guess they could reverse those...) [oh, and also make a simple GEO to branch off CNJ so CNJ/WHM/GEO could be "the baby healer/dps" one]. If we had a slight bit more flexibility and creativity...but the Devs seem to kind of want to pretend 1.0 and the Class system never existed at this point. But having one be the GCD Healer with a simple rotation and the other being more complex would be a possible solution, though they'd have to change how Traits work, otherwise WHM would still inherit the CNJ Trait that ups the Stone damage.

There are plenty of ways to deal with the problem, it's just doing it.

Either way, it would fall under the "Four/Five/Six Healers Model", no matter what number we use. That's 100% the very argument I've been pushing all this time.

I'm...glad you're coming around to it, I guess? /shrug

And I don't mean THAT facetiously. If you actually do kind of agree with me on that, great. My version is actually more extensive than yours (since it wouldn't be JUST BLU Healer for players that want more DPS rotation, it would also include SCH and SGE, and AST would have a more buff focused gameplay to draw away from its GCD Malificspam), but it's the same/close enough general position we should be able to dovetail.

[ty_taurus]

It has 5 DPS abilities, not 1, though?

...

I'm...glad you're coming around to it, I guess? /shrug

I mean, we can make it 1 if you'd prefer. It wouldn't have any way to AoE, or have any DPS refund attached, but Water Cannon all the way if that's what you'd rather have. I just assumed you'd want an equivalent of Holy, Assize, and Afflatus Misery at the least equipped with it being triggerable by any healing GCD. Song of Torment is there because Dia, but we can axe that too if you'd rather.

The difference between what you suggest and what I suggest is your suggestion was previously about having 1 healer (WHM) remain as a bare-minimum DPS healer while the other 3 get the offensive expansion that many of the rest of us here are looking for, but that means anyone who likes the aesthetic of WHM is restricted to that style of gameplay, which I don't agree with. Both my suggestions for BLU and for CNJ are more like easy mode branches of jobs that someone can opt out of. CNJ and WHM would have all the same things except CNJ would just have Glare III, Holy III, and maybe Afflatus Misery (all with higher potencies to compensate) WHM would have weaker versions of those plus several more offensive spells to create that gameplay factor the rest of us have been asking for.

But if that's fine with you, then great. CNJ or healer BLU becomes the minimum DPS healer, and WHM, SCH, AST, and SGE move on from that point.