Roulette incentives backwards?

[Zeastria]

Most people want to finish a dung fast..so they can que the next or get on with other stuff..

[Atelier-Bagur]

I mean thats kinda of a case with MMOs that have daily random content filtering for rewards. Currently playing WoW Dragonflight and Ive been spamming Dungeon roulettes and many of the parties just go for the quickest route (despite the dungeon design is slightly more open-ended than FFXIV's case). So in that sense, those players also dont much care for the dungeon experience and only for the rewards. I think thats fine I suppose, as long as the combat is still fun which it totally is in WoW, compared to FFXIV.

[R041]

I mean thats kinda of a case with MMOs that have daily random content filtering for rewards. Currently playing WoW Dragonflight and Ive been spamming Dungeon roulettes and many of the parties just go for the quickest route (despite the dungeon design is slightly more open-ended than FFXIV's case). So in that sense, those players also dont much care for the dungeon experience and only for the rewards. I think thats fine I suppose, as long as the combat is still fun which it totally is in WoW, compared to FFXIV.

My experience with this has been that WoW, even while trying to optimize a dungeon to it's fullest - Still allows failure and inconsistencies. Where in XIV, you've already optimized it fully before running it.

The CHANCE of failure makes it more alluring. Also not every tank runs the same exact route, and different dungeon tiers will determine different routes and strategies for that same dungeon.

[Atelier-Bagur]

My experience with this has been that WoW, even while trying to optimize a dungeon to it's fullest - Still allows failure and inconsistencies. Where in XIV, you've already optimized it fully before running it.

The CHANCE of failure makes it more alluring. Also not every tank runs the same exact route, and different dungeon tiers will determine different routes and strategies for that same dungeon.

so far with many of the same dungeons I have run, most of the tanks and players take the same route and skip some of the bosses. But your'e right that because of how mobs and paths are structured, the dungeon run still feels more appealing than the linearity of FFXIV design.

[Renalt]

It's not just this game. Everyone wants to do the thing and do it fast. Back in my WoW days people rejoiced if there was a tank that could multi pull and live. Those dungeons could last an hour if not longer sometimes or people would get to a part they would keep failing and then quit.

Back in my City of Heroes days we would get Stone tanks teleporting around and gathering up mobs and then run around a corner and then the entire group would nuke the mobs the second they arrived.

[R041]

so far with many of the same dungeons I have run, most of the tanks and players take the same route and skip some of the bosses. But your'e right that because of how mobs and paths are structured, the dungeon run still feels more appealing than the linearity of FFXIV design.

Some of the optimization need precision, and there's still a lot of opportunity to fail. Like "Okay, we gotta walk along this cliff side, don't fall down, don't move left" - You fall down? You were too slow and the pack wandered into you? Well, now it's a shitstorm of chaos. lol

It's not just this game. Everyone wants to do the thing and do it fast. Back in my WoW days people rejoiced if there was a tank that could multi pull and live. Those dungeons could last an hour if not longer sometimes or people would get to a part they would keep failing and then quit.

Back in my City of Heroes days we would get Stone tanks teleporting around and gathering up mobs and then run around a corner and then the entire group would nuke the mobs the second they arrived.

You're missing the point. LET THEM TRY. It's fine. The ATTEMPT to optimize is FUN. As soon as you optimize for me? I no longer have fun.

You make my rotation for me? Not fun.
You decide my route? Not fun

It's like if Sonic becomes linear and there's no way to fail - You just press forward the whole time to finish the map. It's just not fun.

[Stormpeaks]

WoW dungeons and raids are basically entirely different than FFXIV's, and in all honesty as much as I dont play it much anymore (I played it like 14 years or so), WoW is far superior in both aspects

WoW dungeons are decently hard, at least when it's recent content until you outgear it completely after a while, which is fair, but it still keeps a tiny bit of difficulty, lets not forget M+ which is amazing and makes the dungeon stay up to date, makes them harder and repeatable, with changing affixes regularly and also higher rewards based on the m+ rank you do.

On the other hand, FFXIV's dungeons are an absolute bore, there is no danger whatsoever, it's the same 2 or 3 packs before the boss, then boss, then packs, then boss, with nothing new at all, in a hallway type style. The only dungeon content you get once you are at max level is boring deep dungeons and the likes, in an extremely tiny amount because barely anyone does them, its ignored by most of the community, and aside from those, there's roulettes, which you have a good % chance you'll end up on 2 spells available because you are tuned down in levels so low that you have barely any spells left, but apparently that's "fun" and "entertaining"

WoW's raids are similar to alliance raid, WoW raids feel good to step a foot into, the scenery is usually amazing, Black Foundry is a good example of a nice looking raid, or even Black Temple, or multiple other things, the first time you step into it, you're kind of amazed by the scenery most of the time, same for alliance raids, the areas are nice.

However "normal" raids and even savage are basically glorified trials, you step into a room, you kill the boss with a few mechanics (harder on savage) and then you leave.

Both games really are very far apart in that regard, and not for the good in regards to FFXIV

[Jojoya]

A year after a break playing other MMOs, I came back for a month to play FF14. I love the music and gameplay. Playing with other players in roulettes has been a challenge. I've found that many or most don't really want to play the dungeon; they want to get their bonuses as quickly as possible, and it makes replaying these dungeons with other players awful. Frequently tanks pull more than they can chew and healers--especially sprouts--can't keep up.

I think there's an assumption that multi-player content won't be played unless there are strong incentives for jaded players. If roulettes didn't offer the same rewards--maybe even no exp or item rewards--I think queue times still wouldn't be too bad. Many players, myself included, just like to have a pleasant experience with other players--even if it means that we clear a dungeon in 22 minutes instead of 18 minutes. That said, I like the new Duty Support system, and I think it would be great to integrate it other players that want to play the game, while filling empty roles with Duty Support. (Endgame is obviously a different beast.)

In any case, 2c from a veteran-noob.

That's a problem in just about any MMORPG with the dungeon queue system. Too many players are conditioned to think that efficiency is greater than everything else and so the rush through the content is all that matters so they can get to the next set of rewards faster.

There is a simple solution: make friends. Having fun with friends will be more valuable than the other rewards in the end. Check around your server - do you see any groups of players hanging out together that have the same FC tag? Does their company profile say Casual with content type you enjoy? Finding the right FC for you can make a difference.

Most people want to finish a dung fast..so they can que the next or get on with other stuff..

I think that's a partial explanation but there are other factors depending on the player. Various anxiety issues as an example - the faster the dungeon is completed, the less likely for their anxiety to kick in. I know I'm a lot less likely to be paying attention to the time in the dungeon if I'm with friends than if I'm with strangers.

[Kyrj]

Also if you think people will do roulettes with absolutely no reward whatsoever, really ? Lol

V&C Dungeons had the bare minimum for rewards and people shit all over it, now it's dead content. I would love to see what would happen to content that had absolutely no reward tied to it.

[Atelier-Bagur]

WoW dungeons and raids are basically entirely different than FFXIV's, and in all honesty as much as I dont play it much anymore (I played it like 14 years or so), WoW is far superior in both aspects

WoW dungeons are decently hard, at least when it's recent content until you outgear it completely after a while, which is fair, but it still keeps a tiny bit of difficulty, lets not forget M+ which is amazing and makes the dungeon stay up to date, makes them harder and repeatable, with changing affixes regularly and also higher rewards based on the m+ rank you do.

On the other hand, FFXIV's dungeons are an absolute bore, there is no danger whatsoever, it's the same 2 or 3 packs before the boss, then boss, then packs, then boss, with nothing new at all, in a hallway type style. The only dungeon content you get once you are at max level is boring deep dungeons and the likes, in an extremely tiny amount because barely anyone does them, its ignored by most of the community, and aside from those, there's roulettes, which you have a good % chance you'll end up on 2 spells available because you are tuned down in levels so low that you have barely any spells left, but apparently that's "fun" and "entertaining"

WoW's raids are similar to alliance raid, WoW raids feel good to step a foot into, the scenery is usually amazing, Black Foundry is a good example of a nice looking raid, or even Black Temple, or multiple other things, the first time you step into it, you're kind of amazed by the scenery most of the time, same for alliance raids, the areas are nice.

However "normal" raids and even savage are basically glorified trials, you step into a room, you kill the boss with a few mechanics (harder on savage) and then you leave.

Both games really are very far apart in that regard, and not for the good in regards to FFXIV

The dungeon and raiding aspect of WoW absolutely blows FFXIV's design away. I understand why its done this way because they want to continue to make this game be the most casual friendly MMO in the market so everything is streamlined but I feel this comes at a cost. Heck the current WoW dungeons and raids are very streamlined and simple compared to the labyrinths of its heyday predecessors but even then it still manages to be just deep enough where it "feels" fun to run through compared to the monotony of FFXIV's dungeons and alliance raids.

I reeeeally wish they stop with the singular linear and narrow path layout of these dungeons. We criticized FFXIII for doing this, yet I dont see this being such a backlash by the general public in FFXIV? If you're going to make the paths linear AT LEAST make the rooms bigger and somewhat explorable with loads of mobs here and there to encourage various pull routes. Heck even have some of the dungeon bosses being able to be done somewhat out of order. Literally anything to break up the monotony.