Final Fantasy XIV Hot Takes

[BRVV]

It means your statement is so stupid that I can't help but laugh. You're complaining about things currently needing 2 melee when...everything does for optimizing. Also, with the devs deciding against ranged tax removal with the return of Dismantle on MCH, it's very likely they won't allow that level of uptime again for the final raid tier.

So it's a lost cause? Guess everybody should quit? What is your damage? Guess crying about pressing a button a lot is more use of your time.

[RyuDragnier]

So it's a lost cause? Guess everybody should quit? What is your damage? Guess crying about pressing a button a lot is more use of your time.

No, I'm saying the devs will MAKE people have downtime with mechanics. Basically large bosses but mechanics constantly force 2 DPS away from the boss's hitbox. Forcing you to have 2 ranged because 3-4 melee is NEVER going to have full uptime. Basically imagine P8S phase 1, except double the size of the earthquake stomps and poison puddles so 4 people always have to be directly in the corner.

[BRVV]

No, I'm saying the devs will MAKE people have downtime with mechanics. Basically large bosses but mechanics constantly force 2 DPS away from the boss's hitbox. Forcing you to have 2 ranged because 3-4 melee is NEVER going to have full uptime. Basically imagine P8S phase 1, except double the size of the earthquake stomps and poison puddles so 4 people always have to be directly in the corner.

We might not speak about the same thing. My point is about the devs claiming that you can play with every set of jobs as you wish, more or less forcing you into a set of tank, healer and dps without restricting dps but still, due to uptime in harder fights, basically forcing you to try to use the most melee you can get away with. This is in contrast to their free play. Easier content on the other hand makes melees far superior to ranged as there is no real danger in which you aren't in melee range

[Silver-Strider]

No, I'm saying the devs will MAKE people have downtime with mechanics. Basically large bosses but mechanics constantly force 2 DPS away from the boss's hitbox. Forcing you to have 2 ranged because 3-4 melee is NEVER going to have full uptime. Basically imagine P8S phase 1, except double the size of the earthquake stomps and poison puddles so 4 people always have to be directly in the corner.

The wait til next patch defense has kind of run its course for this game. What happens when your hypothetical doesn't come to pass? Just wait til 7.0? 7.3? 8.0? When does it end?

If your argument hinges on imagination, then it's not an argument, it's a delusion.

[RyuDragnier]

We might not speak about the same thing. My point is about the devs claiming that you can play with every set of jobs as you wish, more or less forcing you into a set of tank, healer and dps without restricting dps but still, due to uptime in harder fights, basically forcing you to try to use the most melee you can get away with. This is in contrast to their free play. Easier content on the other hand makes melees far superior to ranged as there is no real danger in which you aren't in melee range

That I can't argue with. It's why I'm expecting a course correction on their part for the final tier. The playerbase hasn't been overall happy with the constant uptime on the bosses due to the lack of skill involved in doing it this time. Removing that constant uptime would help keep the fights feeling like melee works for that uptime (a feeling I personally like).

The wait til next patch defense has kind of run its course for this game. What happens when your hypothetical doesn't come to pass? Just wait til 7.0? 7.3? 8.0? When does it end?

If your argument hinges on imagination, then it's not an argument, it's a delusion.

It's based on history. Remember how the devs had to basically save the raiding scene in HW with Alex Midas after they almost completely killed it with Gordias Savage? Remember when the devs didn't like how people did things in Eureka Anemos in SB, and basically altered things so hard for Eureka Pagos to the point where it almost completely killed the content and they had to backpedal in Pyros and Hydatos? Remember how the devs had to backpedal on the SCH MP nerfs in SB because it caused enough problems to where SCH was pushed out of parties for AST? Remember how in ShB they had partially reworked MNK in 5.4 because the job was almost completely out of the meta? Remember how a few months ago they had to nerf P8S because they had the HP too high?

We have precedent on them having to course correct constantly, both with jobs and with content. And it often happens due to a shift of perspective on their part due to the community response. And the community hasn't really liked the permanent uptime, so it's very likely they're going to stop doing that. And if they haven't changed that by the next raids, I too will not be happy.

[Silver-Strider]

We have precedent on them having to course correct constantly, both with jobs and with content. And it often happens due to a shift of perspective on their part due to the community response. And the community hasn't really liked the permanent uptime, so it's very likely they're going to stop doing that. And if they haven't changed that by the next raids, I too will not be happy.

We also have a precedence of feedback being ignored as well and while some of it was warranted, there's been a disturbingly increasing amount of legitimate feedback that has been ignored, such as the dead horse that is Healer Feedback. The 2 minute meta has been universally panned at this point and while that might just be a larger change geared towards the next expansion, I just don't see it being killed off either given the lengths that SE has gone to adjust every class to fit that mentality.

If they had a plan for course correction after the feedback for the current raid's design was given, would that not have started in the subsequent patches? The 24 man raid hitboxes aren't exactly small and neither was Rubicante so was this just them not having time to adjust them after the feedback or was it just ignored? I want to believe the former but my copium has kind of run dry at this point. I don't see any hope for correction in EW at this point and can only hope 7.0 is amazing or I guess it'll be time to move on

[Shurrikhan]

We also have a precedence of feedback being ignored as well and while some of it was warranted, there's been a disturbingly increasing amount of legitimate feedback that has been ignored, such as the dead horse that is Healer Feedback.

Aye. And no matter the different opinions on how best that should be solved, at least there is very, very broad consensus on the largest problems themselves (with those problems, being solely of/in perceived gameplay, leaving little room for misunderstanding), so there's really no excuse for that feedback's being ignored/gaslit.



That said...

The 2 minute meta has been universally panned at this point

Things like this, on the other hand, probably hurt feedback's apparent value despite its breadth of consensus, as that consensus so often seems founded on, frankly, a lack of actually thinking about the underlying issues.

The broader (and frankly, meme-ish) that concensus has grown, the less it has shown critical thought, let alone any memory of how the game worked before it (i.e., exactly the same insofar as stacking CDs wherever possible, but with far more cases of "You shouldn't play Job A except in Compositions B or C").

That's not to say that people are "wrong" to dislike the result, of course -- only that there is a pretty clear path between past complaints and where we ended up and that the underlying optimizations now being taken issue with have been around since ARR, so the pointed finger isn't nearly so accurate or helpful as most seem to believe.

[Silver-Strider]

The broader (and frankly, meme-ish) that concensus has grown, the less it has shown critical thought, let alone any memory of how the game worked before it (i.e., exactly the same insofar as stacking CDs wherever possible, but with far more cases of "You shouldn't play Job A except in Compositions B or C").

That's not to say that people are "wrong" to dislike the result, of course -- only that there is a pretty clear path between past complaints and where we ended up and that the underlying optimizations now being taken issue with have been around since ARR, so the pointed finger isn't nearly so accurate or helpful as most seem to believe.

It's not so much that I've forgotten what life was like before the 2 minute meta but rather that I had hoped that it would be addressed differently. Take SB MNK as an example. At the start of the expansion, the job wasn't really all that great and the HW Meta pretty much persisted for the most part. However, by 4.5, the Tornado Kick rotation actually allowed MNK to have some relevance for the 1st time since NIN was introduced. There was obvious room for improvement of course but it was still an overall positive change for once. Instead of pursuing that break in the meta, however, SE decided to double down on the meta and just convert every other job to conform to it instead of developing the other jobs to succeed in their own ways. Sure, there were some positives to the changes, such as PoM finally being changed to a 120s buff instead of 150s but on the whole, I felt like it wasn't worth losing everything else that made jobs unique.