"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Remolia]

oh the ones who get the strikes are bans are part of a group dedicated to early pulling to ruin it for trains. they got their methods in finding the marks. even some S ranks got hit early as well.

if u are trying to ruin some ones trains on purpose - its one thing, if u just running hunts with ur party - other thing. If I will gather my party and run around the world to do some huts - I will not get suspended, If I will gather a party, and strike fast all marks I see in chatlinks - I will be probably get suspended.

[KatiaRelanah]

people have gotten strikes and bans for early pulling in hunts.

For the sole reason of doing so? Not accompanied by any sort of chat drama or anything like that? Or admission they used third party programs? They were struck and/or banned for the sole crime of "attacking an overworld mob in a public instance"?

[Citation needed]

Edit:

oh the ones who get the strikes are bans are part of a group dedicated to early pulling to ruin it for trains. they got their methods in finding the marks. even some S ranks got hit early as well.

Oh, okay, so people brigading off-game with the explicit stated "mission" of hurting other peoples' play experience. Got it.

Pretty markedly different from "expecting someone to do the absolute minimum of their role responsibilities in a matchmade duty".

also i can agree with the rest but nowhere does it say a dps's job is to pull nor does it say its a healers job to pull. show me where it says that please. show me where it even says they are allowed to pull ahead of the tank and bring it back. i am quite curious where in the official documentation it actually says this. it doesn't. again.

If we agree that pulling, as a responsibility/expected action, isn't in any way described as ANYONE'S responsibility, then it means (by virtue of being an undefined behavior) anyone can do it. What is not in any way negotiable or debatable is that tank's responsibilities include getting enemies to focus on them.

If you fail to meet those standards, don't play tank. Anyone picking up the game should be able to look at the official literature, and see that that is tank's job; if they're a new DPS who never played MMOs before, maybe they go pull, with faith that you will come grab aggro because that's the bare minimum expectation that is in any way thrust upon you, so much so that it is described in the saccharine generic writeup on the marketing website for the game.

its what the community thinks and that is split between the two ways (tanks pull or anyone can pull). However, end of it i think everyone needs to be aware of their party. Be aware of how the party might be doing. is tank stuggling, is healer struggling, is dps low. that in the end will tell you the overall picture and if a tank wants to be the only one to pull then let them. you will still finish your run regardless lol. like i know people going to agrue but end of the day. everyone pays their own sub, theres all skill levels, everyone learns at a different pace. you got the choice to either not queue or just leave the run if you don't like the mentality.

If you're gonna retreat to the "well the community says-" excuse, I'd point out "the community" also says "anything post-ARR (or -HW, or -SB, as I stated before the only real debate is where the exact line is drawn) should be W2W by default unless the whole party agrees otherwise". But you don't wanna talk about/listen to the "community wisdom" if it says something you don't like, I'm sure.

[Ravenblade1979]

if u are trying to ruin some ones trains on purpose - its one thing, if u just running hunts with ur party - other thing. If I will gather my party and run around the world to do some huts - I will not get suspended, If I will gather a party, and strike fast all marks I see in chatlinks - I will be probably get suspended.

lol you are just as bad if you just gather a party and go strike hunts. You might think it just fun but you could be messing with a upcoming train. there is content like ARR hunts and HW hunts they don't care about but most trains still scout and do stormblood, shadowbringers and endwalker stuff. if you and your party go in and kill what was scouted for a upcoming train then you no better then the people who do it on purpose. if you are found out they will for sure spread word and may end up reporting if said behavior repeats. what happens is up to the gm but given enough proof you could still be hit with a strike.

best bet is to get in with the trains and find out what they primarily target (what hunt regions, S rank SS rank etc) and run that with them. the rest run with your team.

[Ravenblade1979]

If you fail to meet those standards, don't play tank. Anyone picking up the game should be able to look at the official literature, and see that that is tank's job; if they're a new DPS who never played MMOs before, maybe they go pull, with faith that you will come grab aggro because that's the bare minimum expectation that is in any way thrust upon you, so much so that it is described in the saccharine generic writeup on the marketing website for the game.



If you're gonna retreat to the "well the community says-" excuse, I'd point out "the community" also says "anything post-ARR (or -HW, or -SB, as I stated before the only real debate is where the exact line is drawn) should be W2W by default unless the whole party agrees otherwise". But you don't wanna talk about/listen to the "community wisdom" if it says something you don't like, I'm sure.

community wisdom is wrong at times i have to say. i know the W2W mentality and thats all dungeons..not just post ARR and up. since mobs don't give exp anymore it was decided to go quick, go fast, pull it all. shocked you didn't hear that in the community. also this whole thread has been mainly about what the community thinks..not what official literature says. so yes..its what the community says.

you are too literal on the literature. literature says a healers role is to heal, get rid of status ailments and thats all. yet they can dps in the game and raids are built around their dps in put. Ok so im a dancer main. its well within my skillset to pull enemies and the next mob. i don't. not my role too. im a damage dealer. my role is to deal damage and burn down the enemies as quickly as i can so the tank and party survives. like its the tanks role to keep those buggers off me and healers role to keep us all alive. nowhere in my description does it even mention that im allowed to go ahead and pull mobs ahead of a tank and bring them back.

I frankly don't care about the next mob. I been in this game long enough to see all types of players and i notice things right off. tanks who are confident and big pullers will just pop sprint and go go go and a pull, aoe aggro and move on without stopping. its the other tanks, the ones not sure or new to the role that i go..ok let me burn down this mob so we can move on. i have more often then not seen someone pull next mob and bring it back. tank is fine to pick it up usually but sometimes you get the "let me pull" tanks. they the ones you just adjust for and let them do it. maybe they like it that way. who am i to ruin their gaming experience just to make the run a little faster. i get the same amount of experience and currency end of the run anyways.

[KatiaRelanah]

lol you are just as bad if you just gather a party and go strike hunts. You might think it just fun but you could be messing with a upcoming train. there is content like ARR hunts and HW hunts they don't care about but most trains still scout and do stormblood, shadowbringers and endwalker stuff. if you and your party go in and kill what was scouted for a upcoming train then you no better then the people who do it on purpose. if you are found out they will for sure spread word and may end up reporting if said behavior repeats. what happens is up to the gm but given enough proof you could still be hit with a strike.

best bet is to get in with the trains and find out what they primarily target (what hunt regions, S rank SS rank etc) and run that with them. the rest run with your team.

Intent is a critically-important factor here, which I'm sure you're ignoring on purpose.

There's a difference between maliciously sabotaging coordinated hunts, and the scenario I said, where you pop into an instance and happen upon a hunt of your own accord and, idk, you're some really out-of-touch gamer boomer who literally has never interacted with any Hunt discords, never gone on the forums, whatever. They just see a big thing and wanna attack it.

Just because you assume the worst doesn't mean that someone is acting out of malice. Now, might they be? Absolutely. But it could be ignorance. Now you're up in arms, enraged at them "ruining the game" and you think they're reportable when they're operating entirely off of in-game rules, e.g.

- You can attack stuff in the overworld
- The only punishment if you die is being forced to respawn (or get a res)

Now there's probably stuff somewhere in the huntmaster intro dialogue where they explain "A-Rank elite marks are meant for big groups to take down", but I doubt (please feel free to prove otherwise) it at any point says "you MUST have other players present to handle these marks". They haven't done anything wrong, no matter how much it enrages you, no matter what unofficial, unendorsed community standards they've violated. And unless you can prove they were acting maliciously with discord acreencaps or something, you've got nothing to go off of.

second post I'm not gonna quote cuz charlimit

One might argue that at least inasmuch as "reading between the lines" of role responsibilities goes, there's far more to argue that you, as DPS, should be striving to bring together as many mobs as possible in a single place so that as many enemies are hit by your AoEs as possible, than there is to argue that tank is supposed to arbitrarily pick and choose what mobs they take aggro on or not. By maximizing your damage output, you are optimally performing as a DPS; by attacking anything at all, you're performing the bare minimum of your requirements.

who am i to ruin their gaming experience just to make the run a little faster.

What if all three other members of the party WANT to run faster? Additionally, what if healer KNOWS they can keep up even if tank was naked without their job stone? A bit of hyperbole in the latter case, fine, but if your standard is someone's game experience being ruined, we end up having a utilitarian conundrum here: you're now hurting three people for the sake of one, vs one for the sake of three.

And besides which, as for whether you can honestly consider a hard(er) pull being a game-ruining experience for the tank, I defer to the points brought up a year ago when this thread was actually new (I didn't even realize it was necroed lol): namely, the difference between single pulling and w2wing is basically only the difference whether tank 'should' use mits or not, and even then it's just a slight time loss in all but the most extreme cases (e.g. healer needs to GCD heal a few times more often).

Otherwise, spamming their AoE with tank stance on is all they need do in either case. They can literally do exactly the same behavior in either case.

[Turnintino]

I'm a relatively new player, but for what it's worth, I've just always thought it was both common courtesy and common sense to let the tank lead. Not just for the sake of a smooth run, but out of consideration for the tank, who may or may not be comfortable enough with a duty for wall-to-wall pulls (no matter how easy some players may find the content in question, everyone starts somewhere).

That said, I think if a tank stonewalls the party for daring to pull ahead, that's tantamount to griefing. Of course I also believe whoever pulled first should lead the mob to their tank if they do insist on running ahead, but all things being equal, everyone should cooperate as best they can.

[Boblawblah]

I'm a relatively new player, but for what it's worth, I've just always thought it was both common courtesy and common sense to let the tank lead. Not just for the sake of a smooth run, but out of consideration for the tank, who may or may not be comfortable enough with a duty for wall-to-wall pulls (no matter how easy some players may find the content in question, everyone starts somewhere).

That said, I think if a tank stonewalls the party for daring to pull ahead, that's tantamount to griefing. Of course I also believe whoever pulled first should lead the mob to their tank if they do insist on running ahead, but all things being equal, everyone should cooperate as best they can.

[TaleraRistain]

How are they getting ahead when the tank is sprinting and using closers? Is the tank stopping between packs then? Doesn’t make sense

Can happen if they pull the mobs out of gap closer range. Like Ryu said, it's annoying and a bit silly because the tank is already using what's at their disposal to move quickly so they're obviously not taking their time. Tanks just don't have something that will zot them forward without a target like those abilities.

[RitsukoSonoda]

I rush ahead on NIN to pull everything and blink tank and another tank pulls everything off me leaving me stuck with stacks of Shihei in my inventory... >.>;

[Denji]

If a DPS or healer pulls in front of you as a tank, refusing to grab aggro and watching them die (or not; sometimes the healer or DPS can survive easily) is just petty. It's basically a temper tantrum. It's an "I gotta teach them a lesson" sorta attitude that is frankly kinda cringe.

That's just my opinion! Tanks shouldn't do this!

Temper tantrum? Nah bro I'm laughing the entire time.

Typically I wait until after the 1st boss and if they continue to pull then I ask them to not. If they continue after the 2nd boss then I just let them "tank" the third set of trash pulls while informing them of the prohibited activities article.