Twitch streamers still blatantly cheating on stream.

[technole]

We all know YoshiP is tired of it, world races gives the most visibility to him and people are just awkward at putting a video out there that would upset him. On the other hand it's kind of funny that the DSR world first with the timers on the party list made them implement it.

As for what started the ban hammers, it was the JP snitch crowd just poking through streams. You're more than free to report if you notice it.

Graphical enhancements is just too broad, even nVidia has a reshade like tool. It doesn't cause cheating behavior but there is an argument you are modifying their game and they could use that lever to ban if they really wanted to, just a lever with a lot of dust on it because there is bigger fish to fry. If there was any graphical "advantage" it would be your eyes in P3S since there was ways to have clear skies but that was like weeks after world first, out of YoshiP's eyes.

[KatiaRelanah]

i believe when thats mentioned it means stuff like reshade.

No, there's a specific person in this thread (from yesterday at least) who declared ALL plugins are cheats. Period. For that matter, there's the person just above who cites that the fact that texmods are banned in their speedrunning community because some texmods exist that can be used to cheat exist, means that ALL texmods are cheats. My analogy remains, but to repeat it shorthand: the fact that something has the potential to be used for harm does not inherently mean that thing is harmful. *Edit: or to be more accurate, does not inherently mean that thing exists to cause harm. Anything can be harmful in sufficient quantities/improperly used etc.*

All I want is someone to say "you're right, some plugins are not cheats". And I'll say "and I agree with you that ALL plugins are against ToS, but I am glad you acknowledge that the word "cheat" is significant here".

I'm supposed to concede and give ground while they declare themselves victors. Nope. Not all plugins are cheats, simple as.

Edited edit: and in accordance with below, if Reshade is to what you refer: nope, that's not a "cheat" either.

Graphical enhancements is just too broad, even nVidia has a reshade like tool. It doesn't cause cheating behavior but there is an argument you are modifying their game and they could use that lever to ban if they really wanted to, just a lever with a lot of dust on it because there is bigger fish to fry. If there was any graphical "advantage" it would be your eyes in P3S since there was ways to have clear skies but that was like weeks after world first, out of YoshiP's eyes.

Saying "it's too broad" is a bit of an understatement. Even with shader suites, whether it be GeForce's or Reshade's or whatever, there's a marked difference between people who crank up the vibrance because they want their screen to look like a bag of Skittles, and people who use fog or tint removal.

And even then, it becomes ever-more-granular. Is removing a fog actually helping a person functionally at all? Is it showing them things that change their decision making process or something? Or is it just making them enjoy the experience more? We have to cross thoroughly into mind-reader territory at that point.

And and by then, you might as well make the ridiculous argument that "the fact you enjoy the visual presentation more is cheating because you're in a better state of mind!" or something equally asinine.

[Bonoki]

No, there's a specific person in this thread (from yesterday at least) who declared ALL plugins are cheats. Period. For that matter, there's the person just above who cites that the fact that texmods are banned in their speedrunning community because some texmods exist that can be used to cheat exist, means that ALL texmods are cheats. My analogy remains, but to repeat it shorthand: the fact that something has the potential to be used for harm does not inherently mean that thing is harmful. *Edit: or to be more accurate, does not inherently mean that thing exists to cause harm. Anything can be harmful in sufficient quantities/improperly used etc.*

All I want is someone to say "you're right, some plugins are not cheats". And I'll say "and I agree with you that ALL plugins are against ToS, but I am glad you acknowledge that the word "cheat" is significant here".

I'm supposed to concede and give ground while they declare themselves victors. Nope. Not all plugins are cheats, simple as.

Edited edit: and in accordance with below, if Reshade is to what you refer: nope, that's not a "cheat" either.



Saying "it's too broad" is a bit of an understatement. Even with shader suites, whether it be GeForce's or Reshade's or whatever, there's a marked difference between people who crank up the vibrance because they want their screen to look like a bag of Skittles, and people who use fog or tint removal.

And even then, it becomes ever-more-granular. Is removing a fog actually helping a person functionally at all? Is it showing them things that change their decision making process or something? Or is it just making them enjoy the experience more? We have to cross thoroughly into mind-reader territory at that point.

And and by then, you might as well make the ridiculous argument that "the fact you enjoy the visual presentation more is cheating because you're in a better state of mind!" or something equally asinine.

They are cheats. That's all I will say.

[KatiaRelanah]

They are cheats. That's all I will say.

Well, you're wrong. But you're free to be so, that's your right.

Edit: because you folks are so petty, I'll specify: I interpret your statement as referring to "all plugins" when you use the pronoun "they", in which case my response stands. I know if I don't do so, you'll go "YOU'RE SAYING CACTBOT ISNT A CHEAT??!?!? GOT YOU!!!!" since what "they" means isn't defined here.

[4clubbedace]

ill reiterate that i do not really care what other people do, how other people play a game they pay for doesnt affect me.

the only people that who and should care is Square, whatever they do is on them.

[Bonoki]

Well, you're wrong. But you're free to be so, that's your right.

Edit: because you folks are so petty, I'll specify: I interpret your statement as referring to "all plugins" when you use the pronoun "they", in which case my response stands. I know if I don't do so, you'll go "YOU'RE SAYING CACTBOT ISNT A CHEAT??!?!? GOT YOU!!!!" since what "they" means isn't defined here.

You're being overly sensitive about a silly topic. You should probably walk away from the thread a little bit and relax. You seem offended not everyone sees things the way you do.

[KatiaRelanah]

You're being overly sensitive about a silly topic. You should probably walk away from the thread a little bit and relax. You seem offended not everyone sees things the way you do.

https://twitter.com/reactjpg/status/...z4775oyXA&s=19

Haha also just noticed, brand new account. Decided THIS thread, of all threads on the forum, was the place to step in as the "voice of reason". Right as suddenly opposition to my points stops.

Sealion/sockpuppet harder. You're just pathetic at this point.

[Ravenblade1979]

https://twitter.com/reactjpg/status/...z4775oyXA&s=19

look i get your point. some stuff like reshade and textools isn't as they don't mess with the game directly but there are lots (specifically in the dalamud quick launcher) that are outright cheats in this game as they do mess with the game. That is what square is really after. I think they know about the character modding community but don't care because its not modifying in game to give an advantage over other players. whereas the james webb telescope mod gave a clear advantage.

[KatiaRelanah]

look i get your point. some stuff like reshade and textools isn't as they don't mess with the game directly but there are lots (specifically in the dalamud quick launcher) that are outright cheats in this game as they do mess with the game. That is what square is really after. I think they know about the character modding community but don't care because its not modifying in game to give an advantage over other players. whereas the james webb telescope mod gave a clear advantage.

"Some mods are cheats"

Yes. I agree. I concur. I have said this over the past two days in this thread. I have never said otherwise.

Third party tools/plugins are against ToS BECAUSE these mods exist. Yes. Agreed.

What exactly are you trying to prove to or debate with me? That some plugins are cheats? I've never argued this wasn't the case. Not once. You've already won that argument I guess?

And it's not "some plugins AREN'T cheats" because... Well, you say so.

Tldr I literally wasn't talking to/about you, just the black/white moralists who just can't say "[their] general statement was incorrect". And so long as people like that exist in the community (and in gaming as a whole), there is a problem, because their rigidity stifles games being anything other than cookie cutter shite made for the lowest common denominator with the minimum user freedom possible.

[Ravenblade1979]

"Some mods are cheats"

Yes. I agree. I concur. I have said this over the past two days in this thread. I have never said otherwise.

Third party tools/plugins are against ToS BECAUSE these mods exist. Yes. Agreed.

What exactly are you trying to prove to or debate with me? That some plugins are cheats? I've never argued this wasn't the case. Not once. You've already won that argument I guess?

And it's not "some plugins AREN'T cheats" because... Well, you say so.

Tldr I literally wasn't talking to/about you, just the black/white moralists who just can't say "[their] general statement was incorrect". And so long as people like that exist in the community (and in gaming as a whole), there is a problem, because their rigidity stifles games being anything other than cookie cutter shite made for the lowest common denominator with the minimum user freedom possible.

this is like second time ive actually replied to you. so are you the one perhaps out to make a point or argue with people. as for your Tldr....gamers aren't the ones programming the game. that onus is on the company and to be honest. Most games that come out these days are unfinished pieces of meow that shouldn't have even been released in the first place. that doesn't excuse the players from using cheats but you have to ask yourself in the first place as to why they are using them. the answer in this game is simple. some of them are actually used to make gameplay for those people more manageable or what should have been quality of life stuff the devs should have put in in the first place. I mean they tend to add certain ones now so i think some mods are quality of life to make stuff a bit easier. on the flip side as i said, theres lots that are just outright cheats.

end of this all there is a saying i want you to heed. its a great one "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one". you remember this and you will be much happier and realize how true this is.