how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

[EliaStormblade]

Is FF7 a RPG? Yes, it is. Is Skyrim a RPG? Why, yes. Is Undertale a RPG? Of course. Do those games share a lot in common? Heh.

So I am really surprised so many people here come up with those very rigid definition of what a "MMO" should be or feel like. You are trying to put MMORPG in a box, a tiny box, and anything that deviates from your definition of the term is automatically "less of a MMO" in comparison. The problem here is that that definition of a MMO is not something you can put in a tiny box. There are so many MMOs, who all do and try different things, who play differently. You cannot just say one game is more of a MMO than another game when they're in the same genre. It's like saying you think Skyrim is more of a RPG than Undertale- That's only your personal bias and opinion showing there.

FF14 differentiates itself by trying to be a MMO that can be played solo, with a focus on the story and as little FOMO as possible. And very clearly? It works. Is the formula getting stale? To be sure, and I think criticisms is very welcome to try and get the devs to shake it up. However, in a competitive market it's important for any MMO to forge its own niche, its own thing that it does better than anyone else. 14 has found its niche and is building.

Please do remember, the devs' philosophy is not to make a game that is better than WoW or GW2. It is to make a game you can play alongside WoW, GW2 or any other game that strikes your fancy. Under such an optic, it makes perfect sense why FF14 is moving more and more away from what makes WoW's success and instead focusing on what caused FF14 to find its own success in the first place. It's not trying to be WoW 2, it's trying to be its own thing. And obviously, there are players who will be unhappy with the direction the game takes. But so long as the subscription numbers keep growing... That means they are very likely doing something very right.

I wouldn't mind if they tried to focus more on immersion, especially with the graphical updates coming up. The story does a good job at making me invested in the world, but then I'm in that world, and a lot of "hubs" are five shacks, only one of which has any interior, and the borders of the zone are entirely cordoned off, as well as any pit or bump in the road.

I love FFXIV, but that part is undoubtedly one of its flaws in my mind, and I want to hope that they'll work on it one day. But I digress.

[Thurmnmurmn]

tyty - They were capping zones at 100-200, I think that was for Stormblood. So maybe this is something new. Does that mean Endwalker is more of an MMO now? lol

I was pondering on why it would be so low back then and it dawned on me. That was likely pre world/DC travel.

Honestly what I love about this game is the fact you can do stuff with people or solo. I go from conducting trains to now spamming solo orthos.

[Hurlstone]

Having just started playing the open beta, there is alot I like about D4 at the moment. Mostly its atmosphereand the fact I can be a big buff Barbarian lady (SE, take notes for the graphical redesign for FemRos!) but the 'MMO' aspect I feel are by far its weakest points. Not just because I have been kicked off the server three times and had to wait an hour to get back in... but that did not help haha.

[RyuDragnier]

Having just started playing the open beta, there is alot I like about D4 at the moment. Mostly its atmosphereand the fact I can be a big buff Barbarian lady (SE, take notes for the graphical redesign for FemRos!) but the 'MMO' aspect I feel are by far its weakest points. Not just because I have been kicked off the server three times and had to wait an hour to get back in... but that did not help haha.

*insert mandatory small indie company meme here*

Glad to hear you're having fun with it. Blizzard won't be getting my money, but that's because of their actions in the past dealing with the people actually working for them.

[Chloe_Saunders]

*chuckles* I know how to make ffxiv mmo like in the open world, make it like rdr2 let us have mounted combat and hogtie people to throw into the water

add in a shop to bring animals we kill for gil

[Renalt]

*chuckles* I know how to make ffxiv mmo like in the open world, make it like rdr2 let us have mounted combat and hogtie people to throw into the water

add in a shop to bring animals we kill for gil

Fight clubs on the roof of a saloon?

[Jojoya]

You don't even know why I still play XIV. lol

You've told us in recent posts that you don't really play anymore. You just keep subscribing because you have a house you don't want to lose.

Is there more to why you're still subscribed than that?

And to be honest, a hunt train doesn't cut it when 95% of the rest of the game is single player.

Which is again incorrect.

Raids are not single player.

Dungeons are not single player.

The most popular treasure maps are not single player.

FATEs are not intended to be single player.

PvP is not single player.

Even MSQ isn't restricted to single player outside of the solo duties that are a relatively small part of the overall content in the MSQ.

Stop confusing "can be done solo if desired" with "single player". They are not the same thing. Single player games mean exactly that - you are the only player present.

Have you even tried to play this game with others? It's lots of fun when you find the right people with compatible personalities and interests.

If most MMOs don't allow for 100 players to be in the same area, then it sounds like they are drifting away from being MMOs. I wouldn't set 500 as a benchmark for what moves from multiplayer to massively multiplayer but there's also no way I would consider only a dozen massively multiplayer. I had friends who wired their houses for LANs that would handle 6-8 computers for gaming way back in the late 80s and early 90s. They weren't that many games back then that could handle multiplayer but they did it for the few that could.

It's ironic that you tell me I should put aside my feelings when your own claims are solely based on your feelings. So, again tell us why you feel that Diablo IV is more of a MMO than MMOs are. So far you've talked about the map sections and population yet nothing you have said makes it sound like Massively multi-player instead of just multi-player.

So, what makes you think of massive when in a zone with eleven other players when being in Limsa with 200+ players doesn't?

Having just started playing the open beta, there is alot I like about D4 at the moment. Mostly its atmosphereand the fact I can be a big buff Barbarian lady (SE, take notes for the graphical redesign for FemRos!) but the 'MMO' aspect I feel are by far its weakest points. Not just because I have been kicked off the server three times and had to wait an hour to get back in... but that did not help haha.

Only having to wait an hour to get back in isn't that bad for an open beta. Sounds like they set up a few extra servers for the load.

[Sotaris]

Is it fair to compare Diablo to FF though? It's two different genre of games and series.
I may be out of the loop for D4 (didn't like D3 and Blizzard in general of late), but is D4 an MMO now?

[Stormpeaks]

You've told us in recent posts that you don't really play anymore. You just keep subscribing because you have a house you don't want to lose.

Is there more to why you're still subscribed than that?


Which is again incorrect.

Raids are not single player.

Dungeons are not single player.

The most popular treasure maps are not single player.

FATEs are not intended to be single player.

PvP is not single player.

Even MSQ isn't restricted to single player outside of the solo duties that are a relatively small part of the overall content in the MSQ.

Stop confusing "can be done solo if desired" with "single player". They are not the same thing. Single player games mean exactly that - you are the only player present.

Have you even tried to play this game with others? It's lots of fun when you find the right people with compatible personalities and interests.

If most MMOs don't allow for 100 players to be in the same area, then it sounds like they are drifting away from being MMOs. I wouldn't set 500 as a benchmark for what moves from multiplayer to massively multiplayer but there's also no way I would consider only a dozen massively multiplayer. I had friends who wired their houses for LANs that would handle 6-8 computers for gaming way back in the late 80s and early 90s. They weren't that many games back then that could handle multiplayer but they did it for the few that could.

It's ironic that you tell me I should put aside my feelings when your own claims are solely based on your feelings. So, again tell us why you feel that Diablo IV is more of a MMO than MMOs are. So far you've talked about the map sections and population yet nothing you have said makes it sound like Massively multi-player instead of just multi-player.

So, what makes you think of massive when in a zone with eleven other players when being in Limsa with 200+ players doesn't?



Only having to wait an hour to get back in isn't that bad for an open beta. Sounds like they set up a few extra servers for the load.

I assume you mean the glorified trials ? They have to be done in a small party, yes. With the exception of alliance raid which really is the only content that has to be done in a big party, an actual RAID party.

Dungeons can literally be solo'd at this point if you're a tank, there is no need for a party anymore.

Treasure maps are very... niche.

Fates can be done easily in single player.

PvP might as well be singleplayer, at least CC, you cant even talk to your teammates, even in ranked, for what reason ? God knows

MSQ is literally singleplayer, there are very few bits in which you need a party, and that's it, it's all queueable, there is no need to socialize or anything, it's literally just a queue.

[Shinkuno]

Only having to wait an hour to get back in isn't that bad for an open beta. Sounds like they set up a few extra servers for the load.

i logged in ~3 hours ago and didnt even have a queue, on a saturday in the middle of the day on EU