how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

[Shinkuno]

Actually requiring you to pay a modicum of attention compared to not at all.

Same for Castrum Meridianum, same for Porta Decumana.

when i did prae at like 4am and someone was afk after cutscene, we took down the first boss to half health in like 30 seconds before they joined. Sorry but the content is still braindead

[R041]

Crazy how Prae got more difficult than it was before, huh. Unless you consider AFK auto-attacking all the bosses there to be more difficult.

I don't know if it's necessarily more difficult - It's just different. I guess sure you can't AFK 100%, but it's pretty mindless.

I think they made those changes so that it's more scripted and small form rather than large pulls of chaos. Which means they can write Duty Support to match it. If everything's just DDR, then you only need to let the bots know to move in and out. Uncertain scenarios are more likely to break the conditions.

Well, also the mechanics are more in-line with 'Orange Bubble GTFO', instead of weird ARR jank mechs like 'Dragon head said a word in chat'.

[EliaStormblade]

when i did prae at like 4am and someone was afk after cutscene, we took down the first boss to half health in like 30 seconds before they joined. Sorry but the content is still braindead

I didn't say it was difficult. I said it was more difficult than it was before, which it objectively is.

Nobody is pretending Prae suddenly became endgame content, merely laughing at the notion that things became easier, because Prae was literal braindead AFK auto-attacking pre-6.1.

[R041]

I didn't say it was difficult. I said it was more difficult than it was before, which it objectively is.

Nobody is pretending Prae suddenly became endgame content, merely laughing at the notion that things became easier, because Prae was literal braindead AFK auto-attacking pre-6.1.

Weird debate, you can both be right you know.

Prae was more braindead, but it's still braindead. So the MSQ content overall is generally braindead and easy. Congrats! Yay, conflict mediated!

[EliaStormblade]

Weird debate, you can both be right you know.

Prae was more braindead, but it's still braindead. So the MSQ content overall is generally braindead and easy. Congrats! Yay, conflict mediated!

It's ARR MSQ content, so, uh, yeah? It's just objectively better than it was. Also, the argument started with the comment that things were dumbed down/easier to make it trustable, but almost every change made since 6.1 has made older content more demanding mechanically. Doesn't mean it's going to cause you, the endgame player trouble, but it isn't meant to.

If anything, I feel like now the ARR content pre-Westwind is too easy, particularly quests. Sprouts prance through it and then get their face beaten in by Rhitahtyn. Which is hilarious, but probably not the best pacing. Then the same happens again with Lahabrea, though the effects are lessened because there's Castrum Meridianum, Praetorium and Porta Decumana between Rhitahtyn and Lahabrea, whereas Rhitahtyn is just a hard drop into "pay attention now, sprout" stuff.

[ReynTime]

Diablo 4 is a game designed to feel like a real single player Diablo sequel to 2, with multiplayer features on top. Its dungeon, bosses, gearing and build system are still done with the regular diablo approach.

FFXIV is a MMO that adds superficial single player elements. It drastically tones down or removes a lot of what makes the gameplay of a single player RPG for sake of still being a MMO, like its job design, dungeon design, map design and MSQ difficulty.

[Renalt]

MSQ roulette is pretty much a "Enjoy some snacks while these cut scenes play and here's like several million XP to help level a class you probably won't play after you max it".

At least that's what it is for me. I think there is about 4 classes I have at 90 but never used so I don't know how they function at 90. Like SMN. I know nothing about SMN. Also a bad example anyway cause it was one of my first 90s because I mained SCH.

[R041]

It's ARR MSQ content, so, uh, yeah? It's just objectively better than it was. Also, the argument started with the comment that things were dumbed down/easier to make it trustable, but almost every change made since 6.1 has made older content more demanding mechanically. Doesn't mean it's going to cause you, the endgame player trouble, but it isn't meant to.

If anything, I feel like now the ARR content pre-Westwind is too easy, particularly quests. Sprouts prance through it and then get their face beaten in by Rhitahtyn. Which is hilarious, but probably not the best pacing. Then the same happens again with Lahabrea, though the effects are lessened because there's Castrum Meridianum, Praetorium and Porta Decumana between Rhitahtyn and Lahabrea, whereas Rhitahtyn is just a hard drop into "pay attention now, sprout" stuff.

Prae is an outlier because before you could just let the whole party do everything for you, and you're such high ilvl that nothing matters. It's not even arguable at this point, the mechanics are easier now. It's all basic orange AoE.

I don't even disagree that it's better. Because it is. But it's not more difficult, the mechanics were generally more confusing if you didn't have a cyclone of players destroying everything and doing all of the steps for you.

So the content is slightly more engaging, but the mechanics themselves are very vanilla and basic DDR.

It is more fun for sure. But I turned my brain off after doing the new one once. lol

[Shinkuno]

Diablo 4 is a game designed to feel like a real single player Diablo sequel to 2, with multiplayer features on top. Its dungeon, bosses, gearing and build system are still done with the regular diablo approach.

FFXIV is a MMO that adds superficial single player elements. It drastically tones down or removes a lot of what makes the gameplay of a single player RPG for sake of still being a MMO, like its job design, dungeon design, map design and MSQ difficulty.

Id say FF14 nowadays is the opposite, its a watered down single player game that has just enough mmo components to justify charging a monthly sub.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

are you for real now? or just trolling?
you played 2 different games that was not an mmo so the new one that is an mmo cant be one as well. by this logic ff14 is not an mmo as 12 games before was not as well.
in diablo 4 you see players running in the open world. you can party for dungeons. there world events and bosses that you need more players to kill.

Ya'll really need to learn how to read....
I established I didnt play IV, and I even pretty much asked at the Bottom "How does it play"

If establishing at the top what I think makes an MMO...an MMO, and then CLEARLY explaining I only played 2 of the games so I dont know how IV plays, and then asking about it, makes me a Troll. Then shoot, Im probly the biggest troll right now.
Wanting to know something about Diablo IV is trolling I guess.

Also...that logic fails hardcore. Because its established that XI & XIV are MMOs.