SE, don't overthink Summoner 7.0. Just give people what they want. Just do it.

[Jkap_Goat]

i am enjoying how summoners have their Advatars in the big open world in vana'diel <3









and FFXI summoner get Caith sith <3 soo cute!!!!

[Connor]

i am enjoying how summoners have their Advatars in the big open world in vana'diel

It’s such a missed opportunity to me that they don’t have the Egis hang around for the duration of Avatar’s Favour. Wouldn’t it make much more sense if like, you summon Ifrit, he does Hellfire, then stays and auto-attacks or w/e while you perform Ruby Rite / Crimson Cyclone, then you swap him for the next one? They could give Carbuncle auto-attacks or abilities to auto-use too.

I guess the animation would’ve cost too much lol

[ty_taurus]

There's been back and forth on the general reception of SMN as a job in this thread. Over on General, I put up this thread asking for feedback on all jobs, and there's also posts on reddit sharing these surveys. I want to add that with almost 100 submissions so far, SMN is in dead last in terms of job satisfaction (though AST is a close second and the two have danced back and forth a bit).

SMN is most commonly being awarded 1s, and is averaging around a 4-4.5 out of 10.

There's certainly more to the story here, but there's clearly a lot of animosity toward the job from its rework.

[Axxion]

There's been back and forth on the general reception of SMN as a job in this thread. Over on General, I put up this thread asking for feedback on all jobs, and there's also posts on reddit sharing these surveys. I want to add that with almost 100 submissions so far, SMN is in dead last in terms of job satisfaction (though AST is a close second and the two have danced back and forth a bit).

SMN is most commonly being awarded 1s, and is averaging around a 4-4.5 out of 10.

There's certainly more to the story here, but there's clearly a lot of animosity toward the job from its rework.

I can see why. With how it was prior until now its just got stripped of everything. At this point can you or anyone call it a "smn" ? to me its just a channeller. Reason being because of the how it functions. Yes you do smn Bahamut & phoenix but in between? just channel the power of dump truck titans hands to hit your foes.

[Ggwppino]

I can see why. With how it was prior until now its just got stripped of everything. At this point can you or anyone call it a "smn" ? to me its just a channeller. Reason being because of the how it functions. Yes you do smn Bahamut & phoenix but in between? just channel the power of dump truck titans hands to hit your foes.

I can understand why the implementation choice: the animations. The animations are the ultimate lock. I understand about elementals, but I don't understand why the carbuncle should do absolutely nothing. A colossal and endless waste of placement-based gameplay. Previously a minimum was present with SC assigned to the pet, removed for just cause. But I hope the devs and designers understood that the problem was not SC assigned to the carbuncle itself, but the fact that the carbuncle disappears.

[ty_taurus]

I can see why. With how it was prior until now its just got stripped of everything. At this point can you or anyone call it a "smn" ? to me its just a channeller. Reason being because of the how it functions. Yes you do smn Bahamut & phoenix but in between? just channel the power of dump truck titans hands to hit your foes.

My take is, in terms of style and concept, EW SMN is more a "Summoner" than the job has ever been before, and I actually like the direction of how the summons work, having carbuncle as a "caddie" of sorts, and having your rotation be a combination of grand summon attacks and channeled personal attacks. That said, I think this concept, while having considerable potential, was very poorly executed. The job is frustratingly rigid, carbuncle has no real utility that warrants having him as a support caddie, and overall feels incomplete and takes simplicity too far.

I want to see this concept really enhanced, possibly even taking inspiration from older iterations of SMN and readopting those elements in a way that fits this new gameplay feel. For example, I mentioned earlier that one possible way to loosen up the job's rigidity is to reverse the way gemstones work on the gauge. Ifrit/Titan/Garuda do not require gems; they have cooldowns and generate gems, and its Bahamut/Phoenix who require 3 different gems to be summoned (and you start instances with 3 gems). This now immediately makes it easier to delay a Bahamut/Phoenix phase in dungeons, or for when a burst window needs to be delayed, and creates room to add potentially a 4th option that can be interchangeable with I/T/G. Perhaps Phoenix gets downgraded to your 4th summon, deals slightly less damage than the other 3, but offers healing, instant rez, and utility. This allows SMN to now choose when to bring out utility if needed rather than being forced to take advantage of it at specific points in its rotation, and creates more decision-making moments for the player. Alexander could perhaps replace Phoenix as the alternative summon to Bahamut, or we could keep Phoenix as-is and have the 4th be something like Lakshmi, or maybe that 4th phase is enhancing your Carbuncle into a big Diamond Carbuncle like the one we see in Idylshire. But at this point, these are just my own ramblings of ideas.

[SweetPete]

I always said the summons should function like FF7R. Summon comes out and you have no control over then. They do their own thing. They single target attack when it’s one enemy and if two or mor they aoe. Then after maybe 15 seconds they perform their ultimate attack and leave. Just my opinion.

[ty_taurus]

I always said the summons should function like FF7R. Summon comes out and you have no control over then. They do their own thing. They single target attack when it’s one enemy and if two or mor they aoe. Then after maybe 15 seconds they perform their ultimate attack and leave. Just my opinion.

We kind of have that already with Frey and the Automaton Queen, but those are also criticized for effectively just being DoTs.

[SweetPete]

We kind of have that already with Frey and the Automaton Queen, but those are also criticized for effectively just being DoTs.

Yeah I guess that makes sense.

[Ggwppino]

For example, I mentioned earlier that one possible way to loosen up the job's rigidity is to reverse the way gemstones work on the gauge. Ifrit/Titan/Garuda do not require gems; they have cooldowns and generate gems, and its Bahamut/Phoenix who require 3 different gems to be summoned (and you start instances with 3 gems).

This. In addition to being much more natural and sensible to think of it: because it doesn't make sense that your strongest summon unlocks 3 weaker summons but it should be vice versa, it clearly also makes rotation more natural and makes the rotation completely non-rigid to delay the burst phases when mechs require it. This for the basic rotation of the smn would be a healthy touch. (And the fact that the designers didn't think about it makes me think badly). Personally I wouldn't start with 3 gems already, but I would prefer an ogcd with a 2 minute cd that fills the gems (this would allow, playfully, to potentially vary the rotation)

I always said the summons should function like FF7R. Summon comes out and you have no control over then. They do their own thing. They single target attack when it’s one enemy and if two or mor they aoe. Then after maybe 15 seconds they perform their ultimate attack and leave. Just my opinion.

my personal opinion, I prefer that my summons actively influence my gameplay, and that they are not just dots. If having all summons actively controllable is difficult, and I can understand that, I would like at least my carbuncle to have this feature. If with 7.0 they get rid of the thought by giving it an automatic attack and stop, practically haven't made the class more playful and personally it would annoy me.