Nerf the Hell out of Ninja

[Ransu]

That's exactly the point.

Why the hell is a tank job squishier than a melee dps opportunist that doesn't need a 16k shield to begin with.

It can be a 6k shield and keep the movespeed buff up even if the shield is gone which even fits the class design better aswell, mobility over facetanking, it doesn't need to be 16k at all, it's dumb design that it's like that in the first place.

No, it isn't the point because the discussion isn't about WAR.

Why don't you play nin in CC for a bit and then tell me its as strong as you think it is. Mudras are on a CD and you only get two. You have to choose all offense, all defense or a mix of the two and you CANNOT repeat skills. If you pop the shield its locked until you do a different mudra. You have to make a decision on what you want to do when you engage. If you pop the shield you lose killing power. You may survive, but you may also not be able to kill the enemy who for example say had a LB up that could potentially turn the fight into their favor?

You need to look at the kit as a whole and not just "derp they get 16k shield so its broken"

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

No, it isn't the point because the discussion isn't about WAR.

Why don't you play nin in CC for a bit and then tell me its as strong as you think it is. Mudras are on a CD and you only get two. You have to choose all offense, all defense or a mix of the two and you CANNOT repeat skills. If you pop the shield its locked until you do a different mudra. You have to make a decision on what you want to do when you engage. If you pop the shield you lose killing power. You may survive, but you may also not be able to kill the enemy who for example say had a LB up that could potentially turn the fight into their favor?

You need to look at the kit as a whole and not just "derp they get 16k shield so its broken"

I'm surprised people struggle to understand what being an opportunist job means.

Like Gunbreaker can either be absurdly tanky, absurdly damaging or a decent AOE heal support, but needs to run the Junction for it. Dark Knight swings between being incredibly tanky and basically close to death the whole time, but it depends on how much HP you can spare.

Same is NIN, which has to decide to spend Mudras on damage, sustain or crowd control, with 5-6 of it per minute at most all on the same ressource.

It would be easier to explain what they consider unfun when playing against or as NIN like how I personally dislike Seiton's brutal swinging potential (I also play DRK so I feel personally threatened) rather than pretending that NIN is op, when it is rather mediocre.

[Llynethil]

I'm surprised people struggle to understand what being an opportunist job means.

Like Gunbreaker can either be absurdly tanky, absurdly damaging or a decent AOE heal support, but needs to run the Junction for it. Dark Knight swings between being incredibly tanky and basically close to death the whole time, but it depends on how much HP you can spare.

Same is NIN, which has to decide to spend Mudras on damage, sustain or crowd control, with 5-6 of it per minute at most all on the same ressource.

It would be easier to explain what they consider unfun when playing against or as NIN like how I personally dislike Seiton's brutal swinging potential (I also play DRK so I feel personally threatened) rather than pretending that NIN is op, when it is rather mediocre.

That's not what an opportunist role is, you're describing a multiclass or jack of all trades role.

An opportunists job is go in, get a kill on a weak target, get out, like a jungler from a moba, that's the opportunist role and it's what ninja and also monk sort of are, or at least should be, these roles by definition do not need high survivability tools, they need high burst and mobility, anytime they do get too much of everything, you end up with a mess you're better off redesigning entirely than patching something that can never be balanced because of the bloated kit, best example of this is WoW's rogue, it's always a problem class in pvp somehow and always will be because of the tools they have.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

That's not what an opportunist role is, you're describing a multiclass or jack of all trades role.

An opportunists job is go in, get a kill on a weak target, get out, like a jungler from a moba, that's the opportunist role and it's what ninja and also monk sort of are, or at least should be, these roles by definition do not need high survivability tools, they need high burst and mobility, anytime they do get too much of everything, you end up with a mess you're better off redesigning entirely than patching something that can never be balanced because of the bloated kit, best example of this is WoW's rogue, it's always a problem class in pvp somehow and always will be because of the tools they have.

I may have had the terminology wrong there, my bad.

But in this case... this makes NIN what you call jack of all trades, master of none, no?

I mean far be it from me saying it is fine or good, but traditional roles are sorta water under the bridge, like some tanks are basically just bruiser style DPS, Samurai qualifies more like an offense focused Paladin, Sage is basically a DPS tossing shields...

Imo would be cool if NIN got better tools and be less restricted, but honestly as long as Seiton Tenchiu exists I doubt that will happen.