how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

[Nizzi]

Yeah, it's built to basically be a starting point for new WoW players. But I hope you like dragons. 'Cause it's got a lot of godamn dragons everywhere. Still extremely fun. But so many dragons..

I think I'll give it a shot then, is it like XIV where you have to go through each expansion or do you start at Dragonflight as a new player?

[R041]

I think I'll give it a shot then, is it like XIV where you have to go through each expansion or do you start at Dragonflight as a new player?

Nope! They made it so each expansion is a self-contained story and leveling experience, so it doesn't end up doing what XIV and old WoW did.
You can even start a new character and level that in old expansions synced.

You basically go through the 1-15(?) quick newbie island for about an hour. Then blast over to Dragonflight.

One of the major differences that catches people off-guard is you can do dungeons as soon as your level permits it. You don't need to do the story. But yeah you might not know wtf is going on in them until you do. Though can avoid them.

You can also level and gear JUST by PvP if you want.

[JamieRose]

How did we arrive at a place where people think Diablo is an MMORPG?

[R041]

How did we arrive at a place where people think Diablo is an MMORPG?

Have you played the Diablo 4 beta? ...

It's not like Diablo 1-3.

It's fully online, open world, players roaming in the overworld everywhere, with live events spawning 24/7 around the world. Dungeons are instanced for 1-4 players though.
Questing is fully voiced and non-linear progression. The world feels like a non-linear CRPG with ARPG and MMO elements.

This was the beta map, only 1/5 of the zones. You go to the main city then branch out anywhere, do anything, any quest in any order, with other players running around with you. You can also sync all of your quests, and even the main story. Your level syncs with the world, so running around with low level friends is always viable. They can't cheese and run to super high zones, but each zone has pockets of high level content to keep you going back.

[Jojoya]

Because the thread? Diablo wasn't traditionally an MMO. But D4 definitely feels like one.

First, I'm genuinely glad to hear you're enjoying the game. I might consume some of my dusty Battle.net balance and try it out once it's released.

But what makes it feel like more of a MMORPG to you than FFXIV does?

A lot of players have a misconception about what defines a game as a MMORPG. Nothing I've seen about Diablo IV screams "MMORPG" to me. It's still looking like an ARPG with some coop features giving you a chance to encounter other players. Perhaps there's some other element I haven't seen detailed yet.

To me it seems like a lot of the reason some don't want to think of FFXIV as a MMORPG is because group play is optional when they want it to be forced. That doesn't make for a good game experience.

Does D4 force you into group play, or does it leave it optional as well?

If you're talking about the large number of players you're currently seeing online, don't forget it's a heavily publicized beta test where players are getting their first look at the game on a limited number of servers. It also sounds like they're putting more major bosses into the normal zones instead of in the dungeons as in the past. That's going to draw more players into those zones for now. How will things look after release? We'll have to wait and see.

Are there other things making it feel more like a MMORPG to you?

The important part is that you've found a game you're enjoying regardless of the type of game it is. Too many place importance on the type of game instead of whether they're enjoying it.

[JamieRose]

Have you played the Diablo 4 beta? ...

It's not like Diablo 1-3.

It's fully online, open world, players roaming in the overworld everywhere, with live events spawning 24/7 around the world. Dungeons are instanced for 1-4 players though.
Questing is fully voiced and non-linear progression. The world feels like a non-linear CRPG with ARPG and MMO elements.

This was the beta map, only 1/5 of the zones. You go to the main city then branch out anywhere, do anything, any quest in any order, with other players running around with you. You can also sync all of your quests, and even the main story. Your level syncs with the world, so running around with low level friends is always viable. They can't cheese and run to super high zones, but each zone has pockets of high level content to keep you going back.

So what? It's still Diablo and at its core it is a far different game from Final Fantasy. Besides, people always run off to a new game when it launches and come back here when the honeymoon is over.

[Nizzi]

Nope! They made it so each expansion is a self-contained story and leveling experience, so it doesn't end up doing what XIV and old WoW did.
You can even start a new character and level that in old expansions synced.

You basically go through the 1-15(?) quick newbie island for about an hour. Then blast over to Dragonflight.

One of the major differences that catches people off-guard is you can do dungeons as soon as your level permits it. You don't need to do the story. But yeah you might not know wtf is going on in them until you do. Though can avoid them.

You can also level and gear JUST by PvP if you want.

Thank you, I appreciate the response a lot. I'll definitely be trying out the free trial then, some of the classes like Affliction Warlock or any of the healers seem like just the thing I've been wanting in this game and I've been curious for a while. Hopefully it's fun!

[R041]

So what? It's still Diablo and at its core it is a far different game from Final Fantasy. Besides, people always run off to a new game when it launches and come back here when the honeymoon is over.

What does Diablo vs Final Fantasy have to do with anything? XIV is a Single Player game because FFVII? See where that kind of discussion leaves us? Final Fantasy is still an RPG! Warcraft is still an RTS!

...

I don't know if I said it's more of an MMO, that's mostly the thread title from someone else. But the systems definitely compete. If I did say that, I don't think that's 100% true - But the D4 server infra is decades ahead of XIV as is presented.

I think what definitely helps it, and I could be wrong in a year. Is that each zone is elastic, so where XIV has Region locked characters, and server locked zones. D4 is elastic and cross-play 100%. So I could walk to a zone that you'd think would be dead, but because it's elastic and spans all of NA, there may be players running around there doing content. So HYPOTHETICALLY it should never really feel dead. XIV at times can feel like a single-player game because everything is so cut off from each other, and it can be difficult to find that community unless you try hard to dig for it. D4 so far feels like everything kinda naturally falls into place as far as an MMO is concerned. You just go do your thing and it's got players also doing that thing.

It's like if you could just walk a screen over and seamlessly be in Bozja or Eureka, and it's an instance that spans all of NA. Hopefully that makes sense? No queue, no loading, and no server hopping. They just exist and there are players there because it doesn't compete with itself as a zone.

I don't know if you can just look at D4 and say "Oh, it just has more coop" - You'd have to play it to understand that it's legitimate competition in this space. It has level sync, quest sync, MSQ sync, and the world feels lived in. The world and it's inhabitants feel busy and engaged. Could be because everything is voice acted, and they all have something for you to do. Then you run around with other players doing the same. Luckily this Friday is the Open Beta, so you can give it a shot. We can come back here and discuss.

D4 doesn't force you into group play, but players definitely exist in the same world. You can always run off and do something else, you don't have to be doing the same quest, and you don't have to be queued into the same dungeon. You can just exist and play solo.

When I play XIV, I don't walk around zones and go "This is so refreshing, there's so much to do, so many people to see, and so many interactable NPCs and things!" - No, nothing happens. There are no dungeon entrances or barely anything to do outside of a shit FATE that just feels horrible to do. Can't even kill ranked mobs because the train will be pissed. Everything is so pre-designed in XIV. It all basically plays the game for you.

People say Eureka and Bozja feel like more of an MMO than normal XIV play, and that's mostly because it's such a contained zone with so much to do. That's basically what I'm saying here. The D4 world so far is basically Eureka/Bozja but on a large scale, seamless, and elastic to prevent dead servers and zones from existing. Unless D4 itself is dead, or somehow that content is completely dull.

Also not necessarily MMO related, but it even has a better transmog system than WoW. Where you unlock new glam just by trashing old gear, and can always dye it.

And while playing it, it's very obvious it's using similar zone systems to WoW. It basically pulled all the MMO tech straight from WoW. lol

The difference is that, in XIV - I have to try and find players. Where in D4, I can't get away from players unless I try. Even in a new XIV expac, on release day. I only see people huddled up on MSQ spots. Not running around the zones.

So you tell me. lol

[EliaStormblade]

Hyperbole doesn't even begin to describe this thread.

[R041]

Hyperbole doesn't even begin to describe this thread.

Point out the hyperbole please? It's a discussion, and it's not supposed to be entirely serious.