how did we at a place where diablo4 is more of an mmo that FF14?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Because the thread? Diablo wasn't traditionally an MMO. But D4 definitely feels like one.

I played the Beta, it felt like a living MMORPG and hit all the marks even from just Lv1-25. I maxed all classes and did all quests, cleared the whole map. It was almost a surreal experience, because it was like playing a living MMO CRPG with ARPG combat. Does that make sense? It's hard to explain. I say CRPG, because it has that same vibe with how all of the quests are setup and how they all kinda interact and work with the map, unlock new things, dungeons, parts of the environment. But ARPG because of the action combat specifically. It's not quite Divinity 2, but it was definitely inching toward it.

Also yeah, KRIPP has some legit criticisms - But these are things I believe can be worked out. But if they aren't? I'm still enjoying my time being able to run around in groups in a living world and doing world events and bosses.

I hope you realize it feels like a living world in that game atm because its the beta, where people are wanting to test out the game since its new. What about say the next couple of years? I wonder if you'll be singing the same tune once the honeymoon phase is over. I cant trust that kind of judgement in games. First impressions are well and good but..

[R041]

I hope you realize it feels like a living world in that game atm because its the beta, where people are wanting to test out the game since its new. What about say the next couple of years? I wonder if you'll be singing the same tune once the honeymoon phase is over. I cant trust that kind of judgement in games. First impressions are well and good but..

It's totally possible. But knowing I can sync all content in coop and run around with ease is good enough for me. Unfortunately XIV makes that difficult and doesn't provide enough open world coop opportunities.

Also considering how the zones are designed in Diablo 4, compared to XIV - They're dynamic and expand/retract depending on activity. So you're likely to see players through the world, unlike XIV where it's separated by individual servers. Also it's encouraged to play through different zones for their unlocks, quests, renown. So there's almost always a reason to go back unless you capped absolutely everything.

It would be AMAZING if XIV could just be 1 NA server, and each zone was only split up whenever it was at max capacity. Unfortunately we still live with an archaic MMO server infrastructure where we have to manually travel to different servers and DCs, so we never know what's actually poppin'.

I praised XIV when it released too. lol

[Atelier-Bagur]

It's totally possible. But knowing I can sync all content in coop and run around with ease is good enough for me. Unfortunately XIV makes that difficult and doesn't provide enough open world coop opportunities.

Also considering how the zones are designed in Diablo 4, compared to XIV - They're dynamic and expand/retract depending on activity. So you're likely to see players through the world, unlike XIV where it's separated by individual servers. Also it's encouraged to play through different zones for their unlocks, quests, renown. So there's almost always a reason to go back unless you capped absolutely everything.

It would be AMAZING if XIV could just be 1 NA server, and each zone was only split up whenever it was at max capacity. Unfortunately we still live with an archaic MMO server infrastructure where we have to manually travel to different servers and DCs, so we never know what's actually poppin'.

I praised XIV when it released too. lol

and even back then, it was only praised at the time in compared to its older 1.0 self. It didnt hold a candle to other MMO's if we're going to be quite honest here. I still think FFXIV isnt the best mmo out there but I think thats absolutely fine. No single MMO will ever be that "perfect MMO" and when people try to make one game be their main game well...we get people who lose perspective and start nitpicking about everything. Im glad Diablo IV is giving you what you're looking for, but its honestly not the game itself, its just you playing another game besides FFXIV thats giving you that satisfaction. Ive recently started getting back playing other games (currently trying out WoW Dragonflight) and this actually helped me enjoy FFXIV even more for what it is. It's giving me some wants for what I would like to see in FFXIV but at the same time, Im not gonna act like a pessimistic butthole about the game either.

[Striker44]

And look where that mentality gets us in XIV in 2023. Nowhere. We're dull and spiraling into nothingness with bloated buttons that all feel the same. Congratulations.

WoW has managed to make it work to some degree, and there are MMO-esque ARPGs that are attempting to do it as well. It can be done. Fun should be priority over strict balance.

XIV devs need to realize that you can't balance everything perfectly and you need to focus on fun combat engagement over everything else.

And yet, FFXIV currently has the highest playerbase it's ever had. Perhaps because the devs actually do really know what they're doing and recognize the importance of adapting to the times. People in-game are plentiful and having an absolute blast. Casual gamers generally find being able to pick up a game and feel like they're making progress and contributing sufficiently while being able to make their own choices and play their way to be fun and inviting (aka the idea of balancing/generally homogenizing classes while giving each a bit of distinct flavor is the perfect move in today's gaming society). Balance leads to fun for the casual gamer, rather than a system where the community effectively locks them out of large chunks of content just for not playing the current meta build.

[R041]

and even back then, it was only praised at the time in compared to its older 1.0 self. It didnt hold a candle to other MMO's if we're going to be quite honest here. I still think FFXIV isnt the best mmo out there but I think thats absolutely fine. No single MMO will ever be that "perfect MMO" and when people try to make one game be their main game well...we get people who lose perspective and start nitpicking about everything. Im glad Diablo IV is giving you what you're looking for, but its honestly not the game itself, its just you playing another game besides FFXIV thats giving you that satisfaction. Ive recently started getting back playing other games (currently trying out WoW Dragonflight) and this actually helped me enjoy FFXIV even more for what it is. It's giving me some wants for what I would like to see in FFXIV but at the same time, Im not gonna act like a pessimistic butthole about the game because it would feel irrational in a sense if Im just letting my "honeymoon" linger.

You may be 100% right and it might not work out - But I'm pretty hype, and I like the systems so far. It already has a leg up in how the server, zones, and level sync is structured.

But yeah, I could totally be back here for 7.0, and completely quit Diablo 4. I just can't ignore the MMO evolution is all.

Let's hope maybe down the line XIV can collapse all NA servers and have seamless dynamic scaling zones for everything instead.

And yet, FFXIV currently has the highest playerbase it's ever had. Perhaps because the devs actually do really know what they're doing and recognize the importance of adapting to the times. People in-game are plentiful and having an absolute blast. Casual gamers generally find being able to pick up a game and feel like they're making progress and contributing sufficiently while being able to make their own choices and play their way to be fun and inviting (aka the idea of balancing/generally homogenizing classes while giving each a bit of distinct flavor is the perfect move in today's gaming society). Balance leads to fun for the casual gamer, rather than a system where the community effectively locks them out of large chunks of content just for not playing the current meta build.

Okay, and WoW has a more complex class design with personalization with each build, and it still has more players than XIV.

Correlation does not imply causation. Just because class design is vanilla as fuck, doesn't mean it's a better game. XIV popularity is a complicated subject, it doesn't mean it does everything correctly. Nor does it mean WoW does everything correctly.

[Hurlstone]

So...?

I like the fact FFXIV is more of a solo friendly game then alot of MMOs and other games. Its one of the reasons why I play!

[Stormpeaks]

And yet, FFXIV currently has the highest playerbase it's ever had. Perhaps because the devs actually do really know what they're doing and recognize the importance of adapting to the times. People in-game are plentiful and having an absolute blast. Casual gamers generally find being able to pick up a game and feel like they're making progress and contributing sufficiently while being able to make their own choices and play their way to be fun and inviting (aka the idea of balancing/generally homogenizing classes while giving each a bit of distinct flavor is the perfect move in today's gaming society). Balance leads to fun for the casual gamer, rather than a system where the community effectively locks them out of large chunks of content just for not playing the current meta build.

Thanks to WoW failing in the past for that, and even then, a lot of those people went back to WoW or stopped MMO's all together, if not most of them.

"adapting to the times" you mean giving absolutely no content to those who play this game as their main game ? They sure are, they are adapting to those who can log one time a week or less for an hour.

People in-game are plentiful and having an absolute blast.

All afking in Limsa ? They sure are having an absolute blast alright

aka the idea of balancing/generally homogenizing classes while giving each a bit of distinct flavor is the perfect move in today's gaming society)

Is that why everything is boring then ? Because it's all homogenized, good going I guess ?

Balance leads to fun for the casual gamer, rather than a system where the community effectively locks them out of large chunks of content just for not playing the current meta build.

And makes the game boring for everyone else. Good job

[R041]

...

Also, you know I've been crying about wanting these things forever - You've read my bullshit. Then Diablo goes and makes a godamn MMO with the things I've been asking for, AND makes it feel like D2.

So I can't contain my hype. You understand. lol

[Nizzi]

Is Dragonflight worth trying out if I've never played WoW? I tried out Guild Wars 2 and thought it was pretty bad, but I didn't get beyond level 15.

Balance leads to fun for the casual gamer, rather than a system where the community effectively locks them out of large chunks of content just for not playing the current meta build.

Why is it always the people who don't do Savage or any content where balance matters spouting this dumb sh*t? lmao

[R041]

Is Dragonflight worth trying out if I've never played WoW? I tried out Guild Wars 2 and thought it was pretty bad, but I didn't get beyond level 15.

Yeah, it's built to basically be a starting point for new WoW players. But I hope you like dragons. 'Cause it's got a lot of godamn dragons everywhere. Still extremely fun. But so many dragons..